Gas fillup, dilemma over

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bcassedy
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Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby bcassedy » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:48 pm

For those in the know, a question...
First, a little background....
I spent too much of this season chasing and taking care of a variety of self inflicted fuel issues..
- water in starboard gas tank and the cleanup,
- mechanical fuel pump failure and addressing that in a couple of ways,
- carburetor problems and its replacement.

To prevent future issues one thing I intend to do is fill both tanks with quality gas. That's going to be expensive as we just finished our yearly trip and both tanks are close to being empty.

So, now the question(s)..
-> the boat is already on the hard so fueling will be a process, not just pulling the boat up to a marina's (overpriced) gas pumps.
- I can get ethanol-free gas delivered locally into 3 50 gallon drums and fill the boat tanks from them. This would be a delivery from a local fueling company that'll make such a delivery (won't be at marina's location).
- there is a marina that has the best price for gas that's some distance (90 miles) who will sell me their gas, pumped into my 50 gallon drums. The catch is that the gas has no more than 4% ethanol in it. The marina treats it to remove ALL water. The price differential is great enough to make buying from them attractive.

Question - is ANY ethanol in gas for our boats a deal breaker?
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
"Sunset Seeker"
'88 32' Sedan Bridge
Located in Aurora, In.
Twin 318cu in Chrysler
1.5:1 Velvet drive trannies
Fresh water only

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carl
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby carl » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:22 pm

Bill, If you would like to hear a fresh perspective I recommend you join and ask this same question on the Marinette Boat group on Facebook. Lots of good advice there too...just saying
Last edited by carl on Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
1990 Marinette 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
Twin Crusader 350's
Chickamauga Lake, Tennessee

Fastjeff
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby Fastjeff » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:06 am

I'm not gonna gain any friends with this...

I filled the old tanks with the usual 10 % ethanol gas WITH stabilizer for several years (winters, actually) and never had a problem. The trick is to stabilize it thoroughly, fill the tanks (to lessen air volume, and run them way down in the spring before refueling.

I too (being a cheapskate) brought a whole bunch of 5 gallon jugs from the local gas station to do some of the filling. (My marina allowed it--I asked first.)

Jeff
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington

EWRice
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby EWRice » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:35 pm

I have to agree with Jeff. From my years working on boats and equipment the ethanol only hurts when the gas doesn't get used. I have always run pump gas in my boat with no problems. I treat it with marine stabil at the end of the season and it starts right up in the spring. I use up my gas every year though. I average 300 gal a season so the old gas doesn't stay in the tank. The only people I see have problems are the ones that don't use up their fuel. In a season. If you don't burn up close to your tanks capacity in a season, you will probably have issues. I had a customer that only used his boat to go from the well, to the dock, and back to the well in the fall. He would start and run the engines every few weeks but never took the boat out. We drained his tanks and installed a 10gal tank under the deck. Problem solved.
Muskegon Lake
1972 32' Express flybridge
"AL13"
Twin 318s
On board air & prime 920
1963 Thompson Super Sea Lancer
Graymarine 327
1961 Alumacraft 12'
'55 10hp Johnson

jralbert
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby jralbert » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:05 pm

Concurring with the previous two posts and adding a note about why the tanks should be kept full (probably even during the summer months). The empty space of a partially filled tank is not actually empty - it's full of air, moist air, and that is where condensation takes place. Drop by drop. If it were me (but suit yourself) I wouldn't waste time and effort carrying cans of fuel little by little unless the cost saving is significant.

One additional and, yes, cynical note. Can you be certain that ethanol free fuel really is? To illustrate: I was told long ago (and I can't tell you if it's truth or fable) that long distance gasoline pipelines from the refineries are shared by a number of companies. So Exxon is pumped through followed by Shell followed by xxx. Each advertises itself as being different because etc but there's mixing in the pipe. How they sort out octane I don't know. And who tests octane or ethanol content on the consumer's behalf?

UPDATE: Googled and found interesting stuff on moving gasoline and other fuels thru a pipeline. The way it is supposed to work is that grades of gasoline are moved thru a pipeline enroute to a terminal in sequence: High octane first, regular, then diesel and finally heating oil. I may have skipped a few grades. There are no physical separations between types. There's a mixed zone between them that's supposed to be diverted and returned for re-processing (adding to the cost of transport). You can research other fine points. I didn't readily find info on how the stuff is tested at the pump but that's just because I'll let you do some research. It may be that a state's consumer or Weights and Measures staff does it (and that depends on whether your state has a robust inspection program).
-joel-
former owner 1988 '32 FB Sedan
Chesapeake Bay
twin 318 / 240 hp
Potomac MD

EWRice
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby EWRice » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:12 pm

All the gas stations within 50ish miles (maybe more) of me are served from 3 different terminals. These terminals recieve the product from a pipeline running through West Michigan. All base products (gas, diesel, kero, etc) are pumped through the same pipe. The line either gets purged or they run a plug between products, can't remember which. Ethanol, additives, dye, etc. are all added at the terminal as the trucks load and there are separate tanks for these products (this is why different stations can offer different formulas of fuel). If somebody is selling ethanol free fuel, it should be 100% ethanol free, or it is false advertising. Pure gas has a very harsh smell when burned that the ethanol tends to mask.

USDA tests fuel to verify fuel is what they say it is, and you get a gallon when the pump says you got a gallon.
Muskegon Lake
1972 32' Express flybridge
"AL13"
Twin 318s
On board air & prime 920
1963 Thompson Super Sea Lancer
Graymarine 327
1961 Alumacraft 12'
'55 10hp Johnson

ddependo
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby ddependo » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:58 am

Same here in Chattanooga as EWRice's area. The 100 % gas is the cheapest to the retailer but they charge more here . I know a retired employee of the terminal here and he advised not to trust the independent stations. Our marina still sells 100% gas.
Wayne
1973 32 express fly bridge
Chattanooga
"Southern Lady"

bpboater
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby bpboater » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:31 am

Testing for the amount of ethanol in gas is easy. Just order one of these testers. You fill it with water to the bottom fill line, then fill to the top fill line with the gasoline. Any ehtanol will move into the water layer. The test will show what percent ehtanol was present in the gas.

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1988 41 Marinette
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Westerbeke 8.5 kw BTG
Lake Cumberland, KY

Fastjeff
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby Fastjeff » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:45 am

The ethanol component can not be pumped through a pipeline (for several reasons) and has to be trucked from the producer to the gasoline distribution centers, where it is mixed with gasoline from the pipelines. That is yet another reason to eliminate ethanol from our gas--the transportation costs (and diesel air pollution) associated with it.

Jeff
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington

EWRice
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Re: Gas fillup, dilemma over

Postby EWRice » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:42 pm

If you want to see something scary, look inside an ethanol storage tank after being in service for a number of years. It reminds me of the inside of a 80 year old boiler. Lots of rust and deterioration.
Muskegon Lake
1972 32' Express flybridge
"AL13"
Twin 318s
On board air & prime 920
1963 Thompson Super Sea Lancer
Graymarine 327
1961 Alumacraft 12'
'55 10hp Johnson