Firing Order / Timing Problem?

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duke52
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Firing Order / Timing Problem?

Postby duke52 » Mon May 16, 2016 2:06 pm

Hey guys. I need some of your Marinette wizardry.

I had my starboard 318 stall out on me when coming back from my first cruze of the season.
I chalked it up to running the boat low on gas and likely sucking up some garbage from the bottom of the tank.

I had been having what seemed like a fuel starvation issue last season that led me to change the fuel pump.
Thinking I had just misread the signs I replaced the carb with a edelbrock 1409 and swapped the spark plugs.

Thinking I had caught an error from winterizing I moved a few plug wires around, I then proceeded to moving all of them (knowing that I shouldn't, but the auto mechanic in me thought not big deal I've done this a million times) - long story short I'm pretty sure I've messed up the order.
I've followed the firing order cast into the manifold, and found what I believe to be TDC with the thumb trick on cyl 1.

Cranks but no start, even with a quick squirt of starting fluid no hazza.

Sounds like it's got compression, but I haven't done a compression test.

Here's the part that has me scratching my head. The best I can tell the rotor is pointing between Cylinder 1 and 8 at TDC - considering I haven't pulled or loosened the distributor it doesn't make any sense that it would be off.

What do you think the odds are that the timing chain jumped a tooth? Am I missing something?

Also I muddled with distributor a bit and may have the pick up gap off - it appears that my advance springs are warn too...

Thanks in advance!
29' FBS, 318's

Tranquilo
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Re: Firing Order / Timing Problem?

Postby Tranquilo » Mon May 16, 2016 2:14 pm

Verify this:

http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/ ... 1308966639

Use a compression gauge to verify the pressure of #1. You can't easily find TDC that way but you'll get a good idea as to where the compression stroke is. Check voltage at the coil and make sure you have spark.

If you used starting fluid and it didn't turn over a little bit, you need power
2x 1973 28 Express - Single 318
New electrical panels, water system and velvet drive
Miami FL & Catawba OH

duke52
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Re: Firing Order / Timing Problem?

Postby duke52 » Mon May 16, 2016 3:01 pm

Thanks Tranquilo. I was just reading your thread about your Petronix install.

I'll put a gauge on it, but I'm fairly certain I've found the compression stroke (jumped the solenoid with my thumb on the plug hole - cranked until I was able to identify with reasonable certainty where tdc was - something to note for other when they come back to this thread is that if you crank from the control panel with a compression gauge you need to pay attention as the gauge holds the pressure reading so be sure you put the gauge in a spot that you can see it so you don't miss it.) I'll report back if I was off.

I'll check the voltage at the coil and jump it if need be to eliminate power to the coil as the cause - it's an old coil so I may swap it out to be sure I have a strong spark.

I pulled the coil to dist cap wire and cranked it to see if I had spark and had an audible arc so I think I've got spark.

Do you happen to know what the clearance should be for the pick up in the distributor? Could my meddling with it be messing with the timing?

Thanks again.
29' FBS, 318's

Fastjeff
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Re: Firing Order / Timing Problem?

Postby Fastjeff » Mon May 16, 2016 3:49 pm

Had to laugh at your plight! (Sorry.) Been there, done that, tore out some of my remaining hair, etc.

The "mechanics" at my old slip did a compression test on my starboard motor (for the insurance company--long story). They mixed up a couple of wires--which is damn easy to do on SB Mopars since the wires are jammed between the manifolds and valve covers. After hearing a 'pop' at 2,500 rpms on plane (she still jumped out of the water) I started changing parts until I stumbled over the truth (by pulling each wire out of the cap, one at a time). Since you can't get her to fire up, your problem is worse than mine!

Okay. A few questions....Did you remove the distributor from the block? If no, then # 1 cylinder should be (on the cap) at around 10:30 to 11:00 o'clock. Standard or reverse rotation, # 1 is on the front left side (except for vee-drives, where the motor is in assbackwards). Next, determine if it's a Standard or Reverse Rotation motor (starboard on twins is a RR, and also in most singles). The firing order on the cap should proceed CLOCKWISE in BOTH cases, with 18436572 for normal rotations, and 12756348 for reverse rotators.

Next, find and correct (if it's off) the # 1 wire. LABEL the plug ends with duct tape and a marker to avoid future confusion. Take one wire at a time, going clockwise around the cap, and make DAMN sure it ends up where it should go! (If in doubt, double check.) Then try to start her.

One of two things will happen: It will 'behave' (after a bit if coaxing) or it backfire, try to start, fight the starter, etc. If it does nothing at all, either you're ignition is not putting out the usual 1/2 inch long BLUE spark, or it's seriously messed up.

If you did pull the distributor, then it's now either 180 degrees out or spot on--it ain't a Chevy that can go in a zillion different ways. Correct or 180 degrees out--no other combo is possible.

Good luck!

Jeff
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington

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Busia
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Re: Firing Order / Timing Problem?

Postby Busia » Mon May 16, 2016 4:36 pm

If you think you are 180 degrees out, ( timed to exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke ) just move all the plug wires half way around the dist. cap --Ed
BUSIA
located in Ketchikan, Alaska. Gods country
32 foot Marinette express. (no fly bridge)
twin 350 Crusader (Chev 350) engines
1:1 Borg Warner velvet drive transmissions
Closed cooling (antifreeze in the engine)
Proud to be retired IBEW

duke52
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Re: Firing Order / Timing Problem?

Postby duke52 » Mon May 16, 2016 8:16 pm

Thanks for all the help guys!

I had the firing order reversed as FastJeff pointed out (could kiss you buddy).

I was confused by the incorrect firing order cast into the intake manifold.

I should have known better and double checked.

I'll be happy cruising on Lake Lanier this weekend thanks to all your help!
29' FBS, 318's

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Busia
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Re: Firing Order / Timing Problem?

Postby Busia » Mon May 16, 2016 10:58 pm

You'll remember that now! Standard intake on a reverse engine. Correct for the other engine.
BUSIA
located in Ketchikan, Alaska. Gods country
32 foot Marinette express. (no fly bridge)
twin 350 Crusader (Chev 350) engines
1:1 Borg Warner velvet drive transmissions
Closed cooling (antifreeze in the engine)
Proud to be retired IBEW

Fastjeff
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Location: Rock Halll, MD
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Re: Firing Order / Timing Problem?

Postby Fastjeff » Tue May 17, 2016 5:50 am

..."I had the firing order reversed as FastJeff pointed out (could kiss you buddy). "

As Patton once said (when a drunk Russian general wanted to kiss him). "If I had known, I would have shaved extra close this morning!"

Jeff
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington