Over-wintering boat - in water???

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bcassedy
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Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby bcassedy » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:27 am

Folks,
We normally pull our boat at the end of each season (which allows me to work on her exterior at my leisure (of which there never seems to be much of ... ;) ).
This year there have been a number of costs associated with moving to a new marina (current marina has very high angle ramps down to dock plus ownership has adopted some odd approaches to boating). The new marina has you owning the dock you use (situation where you're leaving a 50' wide swath of shoreline, electric & water access provided). We bought the existing dock which needs a fair amount of work (1 corner of the main section missing and I'm gonna rebuild it shortly...
Dock - overall pic 50% of 25%.jpg


Dock - corner rebuild pic - 50% of 25% with agitator loctn.jpg


Now the question:
I'm going to install a water agitator ( https://kascomarine.com/wp-content/uplo ... 2-8-18.pdf )
in the dock area to prevent icing (which, if it occured, could damage the dock and boat should the dock area freeze and the Ohio River rises (lifting dock and boat which, if it's locked in ice, could be bad! :cry: )).
So.... what I'd like folk's opinion on...
- With a water agitator in place at the head area of the dock and the boat backed into the slip, the water should remain ice free. Are there any inherent issues with this set up?

Eventually, we plan to buy a used section of dock as an opposing "finger". This would give us an 'anchoring point' at each end of the fingers to direct the deeper (and warmer?) water INTO the dock area which should do a better job of keeping the boat and dock areas ice free. As it stands right now, the placement of the agitator will have to run caddy-corner from 1/2 way up the left (existing) finger to the right corner of the existing left dock (as you look at the whole dock from the shore).

Bill n Sharon
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
"Sunset Seeker"
'88 32' Sedan Bridge
Located in Aurora, In.
Twin 318cu in Chrysler
1.5:1 Velvet drive trannies
Fresh water only

jralbert
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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby jralbert » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:52 pm

Bill.. I had a Kasco unit and found it effective. Consider getting a thermostat (maybe the timer, too) supplied by Kasco - it will probably pay for itself in power costs.
Also consider a bubbler as an alternative to Kasco. They're similar to what one uses in an aquarium. While the Kasco is more powerful, a bubbler isn't going to be stymied by clogging with weeds or debris. I had one experience with bubblers. In my first year of ownership, we had a very deep freeze, record setting, for days. As I was getting ready to install the Kasco, I got sick and was in bed for two weeks during which time the creek froze from bank to bank. On recovery, I raced to the marina to find the boat had a band of clear water around it. A few neighbors, at least several docks away, had bubblers in operation and it was enough to protect a large enough area to encompass my boat.
Either of these approaches will give you some peace of mind when the North Wind blows hard. Good luck
-joel-
former owner 1988 '32 FB Sedan
Chesapeake Bay
twin 318 / 240 hp
Potomac MD

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bcassedy
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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby bcassedy » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:58 pm

Thanks Joel!!!
Much appreciated!
Do you have any recommendations on bubblers?
Bill
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
"Sunset Seeker"
'88 32' Sedan Bridge
Located in Aurora, In.
Twin 318cu in Chrysler
1.5:1 Velvet drive trannies
Fresh water only

jralbert
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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby jralbert » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:12 pm

After i wrote the note above, I went online to see if there was a current bubbler aeration system as I described. I found one hit with a company apparently out of business and another one for "deiceair" that seems to be current (https://deiceair.ca/bubble-tubing-fine- ... -diffuser/). It requires an air compressor, of course but a quick glance at the site doesn't tell me if that they supply it or user does. My experience with bubblers was long ago and the market place for niche products is always in flux.
-joel-
former owner 1988 '32 FB Sedan
Chesapeake Bay
twin 318 / 240 hp
Potomac MD

Fastjeff
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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby Fastjeff » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:38 pm

An important fact was left out here (or I stupidly missed it): How far away is the slip from where you live?

If nearby, you can bop over every few days of nasty weather and make sure all is okay. But if you live hours away (as I once did), you need BOTH a reliable person keeping and eye out for you, AND the most reliable, fail proof system you can buy.

Agreed?

Jeff
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington

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bcassedy
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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby bcassedy » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:51 am

Jeff,

Agreed.

We live 40 minutes away from the new marina (50 mins to the current one), so it's been easy (?) to go to the boat.

The placement of the Kasco unit (ordered last night with the optional timer/thermometer) is somewhat in question:
- Option 1: With only 1 finger in position, I can position the unit nearer the head of the dock (closer to the main dock area as noted in the pic).
Boat pulled into dock area bow first. Mooring lines for the Kasco unit secured at finger AND on corner of main dock.
Water depth there is 4'. In my mind, not the most effective positioning as this won't have the draw of deeper (7' at finger's end) and
warmer water to circulate under the boat (whose deadrise will help with disbursement of the water around the dock & finger itself.
- Option 2: Back the boat into the dock area. Position one mooring rope for the Kasco unit in front of the bow on the finger. Take an 8' 2x4, bolt
it thru the slots of the swim platform, angled slightly out and away from the aft end of the boat. 2x4 would have an "eye" bolt thru
the end over the water and the 2nd of the 2 mooring ropes secured to it BEFORE bolting to the swim platform. Then adjust the position
of the Kasco unit so it's slightly nearer the finger and angled to push water toward the main dock.
--> in my mind (that very cavernous area that just needs more projects to keep it busy! NOT!!!!! :lol: ) this setup would draw warmer
water from the deeper area (7' depth at end of finger) and push it towards the boat and dock. This setup would then allow the
boat & dock to rise and fall with any possible flooding.
The "CONS" - the potential (remote) of the rope secured to the 2x4 to freeze in place and a rise in water level causing a strain on the
swim platform. I can mitigate this by cutting a "strain relief kerf cut" across the 2x4 about 1" deep and spanning that kerf cut with
a 3 inch section of old anode. Anode would be screwed in place on one side of the kerf cut. The other side would have a oversize hole
drilled into it and a 16lb nail hammered in place that's been clipped off 3/4" above the anode.
* The idea would be that:
Should there be a strain on the 2x4 in a vertical manner (ice formation and boat/dock rising) the 2x4 would start to bend down at the eye
bolt. The anode span would act as a "safety". If the bend is too much, the kerf cut would allow the 2x4 to break, the anode 'safety' would
be cleared and there'd be no damage to the swim platform. This all would have to happen almost overnight as weather of such extreme
would be forecast and I'd be checking the boat/dock and operation of the Kasco unit more often.

Thots anyone?

Bill
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
"Sunset Seeker"
'88 32' Sedan Bridge
Located in Aurora, In.
Twin 318cu in Chrysler
1.5:1 Velvet drive trannies
Fresh water only

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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby Fastjeff » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:24 pm

Yeah; on land storage is looking better and better!

Is on land storage possible somewhere nearby? My old marina stored lots of boats during the winter from other locations. Even if you had to go several miles it would be a safer (and possibly cheaper) alternative. And you'd sleep better at night knowing ice could not wreck your boat.

Jeff
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington

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Rob
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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby Rob » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:15 pm

If you're leaving it in the water, blow air into the thru hulls to make air pockets or bubbles, then shut off the thru hull. More peace of mind. Thru hulls won't split from freezing.
1973 32' FB Express
Cincinnati, Ohio

jralbert
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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby jralbert » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:44 pm

Sorry, Rob, I don't think that's an effective anti-freeze technique. A better way to do what you are describing is simply to shut the thru hulls and pour some pink (or green) non toxic anti freeze into the hose. The rest of the hose (and system) is protected by the winterization (pink stuff) process. The air pockets you describe will rapidly dissipate leaving air temp water to freeze. Bubblers work because they are constantly agitating warmer, unfrozen water from the sea floor under the boat, causing it to rise and protect the hull.
I don't mean to stir a ruckus or debate and if it works for you, keep doing it, of course.
-joel-
former owner 1988 '32 FB Sedan
Chesapeake Bay
twin 318 / 240 hp
Potomac MD

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bcassedy
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Re: Over-wintering boat - in water???

Postby bcassedy » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:28 am

Out of water storage isn't an option this uear... Too many 'needs' pulling at dollars (political campaign running for mayor, house being resided, dock rebuild, boat possibly needing new carb on port engine (Break Out Another Thousand (couple of hundred but that didn't match the "T"... :? ). So she stays in water with deicer (which I'd need to get anyhow to protect dock).
One annoying thing about deicer...
Kasco's site says their 3/4 hp unit should keep an area larger than the 30' x 50' targeted area I want to keep ice free.
"A single 3400D unit can keep a circle of water open up to 75 ft. in diameter."
Deicer chart.jpg
Deicer chart.jpg (48.03 KiB) Viewed 1942 times


Guy at Kasco says, based on same pic as I posted above, I'd need 3 units?!?!. His explanation was that I'd need more that 1 unit because the dock is using floats. Seems that was a sales pitch when their site says otherwise?

Bill
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
"Sunset Seeker"
'88 32' Sedan Bridge
Located in Aurora, In.
Twin 318cu in Chrysler
1.5:1 Velvet drive trannies
Fresh water only