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need help with vhf-gps install.
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old32
#1 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:10:04 AM(UTC)
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i just ordered a new vhf two station setup ,and gps fish finder combo today and need a little help from the smart ones.

how can i tell if my old antennas are any good and replace there cables?
i have two antennas can i use the other one for my fm radio?
is there any way (under water epoxy?)to attach a transom mount transduser in the water?what is the best place to put it?
do i need an external gps antenna?it will be in the cockpit on a express.

thanks in advance
tim
72 32' express
"http://www.theboaters.com/boats/Powerboat_Express_Cruiser_marinette_1972_anticipation"
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ComputerJoe
#2 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:33:02 AM(UTC)
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I'm certainly no expert but I do know a little about broadcast signals.

You have to put a GPS antenna outside the cabin, period.

Check your VHF connectors, not much to go wrong with the antenna other than corrision of connectors. Inside the fiberglass antenna shell the coax cable terminates the shielding at the base and the core is ran up inside. Different frequency band widths have antennas cut at different lengths to optimize available signal. I think VHF is at the upper end of the FM radio band. Higher the frequency the shorter the antenna.

The main problem with using a VHF antenna for FM might be polarzation...FM TV signals are broadcast parallel to the ground in the US, UK turns their TV signal 90 degrees. I'm not sure about US radio signals, our vechicles have vertical antenna but that might just be for AM signals, and VHF is an AM signal. Anything dangled outside the aluminum hull will help, laying your FM radio antenna down might improve things.

I'm still struggling with my transducer placement...Directly behind the props is a no-no. Avoid bubbles and anything that would disturb water flow over the hocky puck. Most transducers have only about a 10 degree wide beam, the deeper your sounding is built for the narrower the beam is to concentrate its power. My Humming bird has three tranducers in one head and can scan with a 90 degree composite beam.
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dougrose
#3 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 2:26:28 AM(UTC)
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"how can i tell if my old antennas are any good and replace there cables?"

A working antenna uses the power that is sent to it by the transmitter. A bad antenna can't put the power into the air and so reflects most of it back to the transmitter. The measure of how well the antenna is working is the amount of power you send to it relative to the amount of power it can't use. This is measured as "standing wave ratio".

SWR is measured by a box that you insert between transmitter and antenna. You should have one. It is much better than a "radio check" and annoys the Coast Guard less. Shakespeare has a marine one for around $100, but any "VHF" meter should work.

A few radios have the swr function built in. Probably not yours, but you should check before buying or borrowing.


"i have two antennas can i use the other one for my fm radio?"

You are better off getting an fm antenna, they are pretty cheap. A vhf antenna works poorly with fm.

Shakespeare makes a box that lets you share an antenna between a vhf radio and an fm receiver. I have one and I don't like it, works like cr*p. Next trip to the boat I am installing a tv flying saucer and I plan to use it for fm as well. The fm band (88 to 108 MHertz) is smack between channel 6 and channel 7. Marine is up around 160 MHz.


"do i need an external gps antenna?it will be in the cockpit on a express."

Put the GPS antenna on the roof, clear of obstacles. It does not need to be high, like a communications antenna, but it needs a clear view of the whole sky. If you mount a unit with a built-in antenna down in the shade, it won't work at all.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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Ed
#4 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:03:17 AM(UTC)
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"is there any way (under water epoxy?)to attach a transom mount transduser in the water?"

I had enough room next to the trim tab to mount one at the transom. Bolted it to the bottom skin that the trim tab is attatched to. You will have to see what you have to work with. Or make a bracket from the swim step. Every case is different.
To drill, I used a cordless drill and a long ( feeler bit ) 1/4" bit. Tie a string onto all tools so when you drop them, you can get them back.--Ed
BUSIA
32 foot, no flybridge, twin 350 (chevy) Crusaders, closed (freshwater) cooling, 1:1 Velvet drive transmissions.
Proud to be IBEW.
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old32
#5 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:22:18 AM(UTC)
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thanks for the help .ordered the external antenna and second gps station kit too.i'll look to see what i have to mount to next time i'm at the lake.

tim





72 32' express
"http://www.theboaters.com/boats/Powerboat_Express_Cruiser_marinette_1972_anticipation"
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old32
#6 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 5:29:04 AM(UTC)
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by the way this is what i'm installing .i know it is most likely considered cheap just my most but i think it will work on our lake for what we need.

tim


Items Ordered: Price: Status:
1 of : Garmin 2nd Station Mounting Kit for the GPSMAP 5xx Series - 010-10930-00
$34.99 Processing
1 of : GARMIN GA29 Surface Mount/Pole Mount GPS Antenna
$42.99 Processing
1 of : Garmin GPSMAP 530s Combo GPS Chartplotter/Fish Finder Sonar with Preloaded maps of U.S. inland lakes and Dual Beam Transom-Mount Transducer - 010-00613-00
$589.99 Processing
1 of : SHAKESPEARE PL259 GOLD PLATED CONNECTOR F/RG58
$4.46 Processing
2 of : SHAKESPEARE PL259G CENTERPIN GOLD PLATED
$12.52 Processing
1 of : Standard Horizon 240SW HAILER HORN 40 WATT 4 OHM
$39.99 Processing
1 of : Standard Horizon CMP25W RAM + Remote Access Mic (White)
$80.99 Processing
1 of : Standard Horizon Matrix GX3000S Black 25W Class D DSC Marine VHF Radio with dual station capability and 30W loud hailer -
$154.99 Processing
72 32' express
"http://www.theboaters.com/boats/Powerboat_Express_Cruiser_marinette_1972_anticipation"
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dougrose
#7 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:44:10 PM(UTC)
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That should be a pretty sweet setup once it is installed. My radio is old enough to drink at the bar but it keeps on working - not as nice as the standard horizon unit by far.

The Matrix gx3000s does not have built-in antenna testing as far as I can see, so you should borrow (or buy) a power/swr meter to check out the installation when you are done. I would be happy to loan you mine, but it is on the boat in fl and I am currently in DC. If you want to buy one, let me know and I'll look on ebay for you - there are some good deals. If you want to look yourself, you must have a unit good at 160 MHz, a CB unit will not do. You need to measure VSWR (voltage standing wave ratio) and optionally it is nice to measure power output as well.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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jsimanella
#8 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 3:39:09 PM(UTC)
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Why didn't you just go with the black box setup? I comes with 1 cmp25, and you add another.

I put my black box inside the lower helm. All you see are the mikes.

John
--
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Twin 360s, Rebuilt 2006
Modified/Original Electronic Ignition
Raw Water Cooled
Catawba Island, Ohio
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jralbert
#9 Posted : Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:08:36 PM(UTC)
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I have a Standard Horizon w/RAM mic. Main box is inside the cabin and ram mic on the FB. Works well. You'll like it.
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
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ComputerJoe
#10 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2009 1:38:29 AM(UTC)
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I ordered the same radio...it does have a built in hailer and able to do the fog horn signals, a must up here on the Great Lakes when diving in the shipping lanes. It is amazing what these new radios can do when connected to GPS via a NEMA link. You can poll your buddies (within transmitter range) and find out where there at. The Admrial wants to mount one on me.
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old32
#11 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2009 12:58:24 PM(UTC)
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doug is this what i need http://cgi.ebay.com/MICR...A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


or this http://cgi.ebay.com/DAIW...A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


or http://cgi.ebay.com/VHF-...A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50



as you can see i have no idea.

john ,i'm mounting it from the roof at the lower helm the antennas are right above and there is power already there .so i'm fixing the antenna cable(new connector)and dropping in the second mic cable from above .ok i'm kinda lazy.

joe and joel , thanks for the vote of confidence.


tim

72 32' express
"http://www.theboaters.com/boats/Powerboat_Express_Cruiser_marinette_1972_anticipation"
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dougrose
#12 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2009 2:09:14 PM(UTC)
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All three are fine. You need 160 MHz coverage, with power of greater than 25 watts.

You can't get the middle one because it is MUCH NICER than mine and I will feel bad. Oh OK, go ahead and spend the $100.

You should be able to get the Micronta unit for around $30, and it will do. The Workman unit is good also, and is well made - it would be my choice. I have the Shakespeare marine unit, but I bought it back when they were $25. I can't believe how much the Shakespeare stuff has gone up.

Maybe someone else has a different slant on this, I am not a heavy-duty radio guy.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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jralbert
#13 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2009 3:18:59 PM(UTC)
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I used mine once. The swr thing, that is. Would you like to borrow it if I can find it? Are you in a great big hurry? Next trip to the boat is sked for Wed.
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
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old32
#14 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2009 4:42:14 PM(UTC)
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thanks for the offer just ordered one.i've got plenty to do until it gets here.i seem to be having a hard time finding time to get to the boat.


tim


72 32' express
"http://www.theboaters.com/boats/Powerboat_Express_Cruiser_marinette_1972_anticipation"
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old32
#15 Posted : Thursday, June 18, 2009 2:44:36 PM(UTC)
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my swr reading is 8 to 9 .would my next step be the antenna

tim
72 32' express
"http://www.theboaters.com/boats/Powerboat_Express_Cruiser_marinette_1972_anticipation"
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dougrose
#16 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2009 8:33:53 AM(UTC)
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Ouch! SWR should be ideally 1:1 but in real world systems 1.2:1 is considered pretty good. If it is actually 8:1 then almost no power is getting to the antenna, most likely the antenna's fault, allthough it would not hurt to check the cable. Perhaps one of the radio folks can help out here - my ham days are about 50 years ago...


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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jralbert
#17 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:39:46 PM(UTC)
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it's usually a faulty connection, simple to repair. But once in a while, antennas do fail
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
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