logo
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Motorola Alternator Trick
jralbert
#1 Posted : Monday, August 03, 2009 3:21:48 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration

Groups: Admin, Administration
Joined: 12/4/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,117
Points: 665

Was thanked: 12 time(s) in 12 post(s)
Just got off the phone with the shop that rebuilt my Motorola alternator which was original to the '88 boat and they had an interesting tip. They said that if the rebuilt (or, I guess, any) older style alternators sit around for long periods of time they lose their residual magnetism and the result is that they would appear to be not working, not cranking out the juice. The solution is to take off the plastic cap on the terminal marked "IL" (or Ind L) - for indicator light - and jump that terminal for just a second to the battery output terminal (the one to which the orange lead is attached). Do this, of course, while the alternator is running.

(The shop owner said many shops won't tell you this and owners keep bringing back the units for unnecessary repairs. Naturally, the shop that did that wouldn't get much business. But there are known cases of short-sighted business people.)
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
Sponsor
Please Register : To weed out spammers, new members may not post until approved. An email is usually sent after approval. This forum is for Marinette Owners and other aluminum boat boaters who wish to share boating information. Aluminum Roamer owners are also welcome. (Do not post content you do not have the right to post and mass (robots) posters are unwelcome. We also have a marine electronics page and lots of Chrysler Engine info. State by what permission you copy content and give credit properly.) The site is now fixed with some more Chrysler information. We have space for pictures on the new location. Use shinkpic to autochange size http://www.onthegosoft.com/sp_download.htm

Great Sites - http://www.marinette.com Marinette Company

http://web.me.com/dougmrose/Doug_Roses_Website/Welcome.html

http://fastjeff.tripod.com/ Repair Tricks and Techniques for Marinettes

http://www.greatlakesmarinetteclub.com/

PLEASE post in the appropriate folder. Please, do not post your actual email address in publicly readable websites. The first rule is be a class act.

dougrose
#2 Posted : Friday, August 07, 2009 2:13:48 PM(UTC)
dougrose

Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts

Groups: Member, Administration, Admin
Joined: 12/7/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Points: 1,746

Was thanked: 25 time(s) in 21 post(s)
One solution is to put a diode from the purple ign wire towards the alternator to provide the "jump" when the ign is turned on. You need a diode, not a jumper wire, to keep the alternator output from flowing directly to the purple ign wire. I show this on my website.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
fastjeff
#3 Posted : Friday, August 07, 2009 10:56:00 PM(UTC)
fastjeff

Rank: Administration

Medals: aluminum star: For Marinette Owners Everywhere above the call of duty

Groups: Admin2, Admin, Administration, Member, Admin2
Joined: 12/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,133
Points: 5,732

Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 30 post(s)
Dave told me that as well, Joel, when I picked your alternator up. We're going to the boat next Wednesday and I'll have it with me.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

Ed
#5 Posted : Saturday, August 08, 2009 6:01:53 PM(UTC)
Rank: Top Rank Aluminum Star

Groups: Member
Joined: 3/5/2008(UTC)
Posts: 208
Points: -522

Thanks: 1 times
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 4 post(s)
What you're doing is flashing the field of a generator. It restores the residual magnitism. You don't have to do this on an alternator, it uses the battery to excite the field. A generator uses the residual magnitism. If you have a one wire (and a ground ) alternator it has a generator built into it that generates a D.C. current to excite the alternator instead of using the battery. If you have a 120 volt generator ( like a Homelite or whatever ) with no battery, the secret is to plug in to the 120 volt output while it's running and flash it with a battery. A flashlight battery is all you need to restore the magnitism, and then it will put out whatever voltage the alternator is supposed to put out. ... Now if she would only put out so easily....
..Ed
BUSIA
32 foot, no flybridge, twin 350 (chevy) Crusaders, closed (freshwater) cooling, 1:1 Velvet drive transmissions.
Proud to be IBEW.
fastjeff
#6 Posted : Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:30:00 PM(UTC)
fastjeff

Rank: Administration

Medals: aluminum star: For Marinette Owners Everywhere above the call of duty

Groups: Admin2, Admin, Administration, Member, Admin2
Joined: 12/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,133
Points: 5,732

Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 30 post(s)
This IS an alternator, and the man insists it may need it if it sits a long while. I too was surprised to hear that. We used to have to do that with our generators in the olde days.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

dougrose
#7 Posted : Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:04:10 AM(UTC)
dougrose

Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts

Groups: Member, Administration, Admin
Joined: 12/7/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Points: 1,746

Was thanked: 25 time(s) in 21 post(s)
I have heard some pretty weird stuff from shops, and I'm not sure I believe this.

Alternators don't have "residual magnetism". At least not as a design feature. The field magnet (the part that rotates) is supposed to be magnetized by the field coil, which is driven through the brushes. Without any field current, there may or may not be some output on the windings, depending on whether there is indeed "residual magnetism" in the iron. But it's not guaranteed by any means, and you shouldn't need it anyway. The field current is supposed to come from the battery.

If you have an external regulator, then the Field terminal should go hot as soon as you turn on the ignition switch. This provides field from the battery.

If you have an internal regulator, then the power for the regulator, and thus the field, comes from the hot terminal. If this is connected to the battery, there is no problem.

What happened to me was that each of my single-terminal alternators was driving several batteries through a diode splitter. Current could not go backwards from the battery through the diode to the alternator, so there was no power to the alternator to run the field. The alternators did not start.

This was particularly distressing since the tach drive is from the alternator, since I have no points, and so I would be starting the engines and not able to see the rpms.

At some rpm, around 1500 or so, the alternators would "light up" and I would get both charge and a reading of engine revs. After that they would work. This, of course, was caused by the "residual magnetism" in the iron that created enough output to provide field, after which all was OK.

But this is not guaranteed, and in fact one alternator had better iron than the other and therefore started at a much higher engine rpm.

The cure is to provide field power from the ignition. But, if you just hook the ignition to the alternator output, it will try to charge the battery through that tiny wire. A diode lets the field current flow from the battery, but stops any current from the alternator to the ignition and battery.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
edst789
#8 Posted : Monday, August 10, 2009 4:01:19 AM(UTC)
Rank: Fiberglass Star Advanced Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 21
Points: -213

On a one wire alternator the field gets energised when the alternator rises above a specified rpm. On a three wire alternator the big post goes to the bat and one of the small spade connectors goes back to the big connector on the alternator and the other one field or exciter goes to the switch through a diode or direct to the aux term of the switch. I have converted old 6v generator tractors to 12v this way. Without the diode or connection to the aux term the engine will stay running when the key is turned off because current will feed off the field
http://www.ytmag.com//articles/artint178.htm




fastjeff
#9 Posted : Monday, August 10, 2009 10:29:24 AM(UTC)
fastjeff

Rank: Administration

Medals: aluminum star: For Marinette Owners Everywhere above the call of duty

Groups: Admin2, Admin, Administration, Member, Admin2
Joined: 12/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,133
Points: 5,732

Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 30 post(s)
..."Without the diode or connection to the aux term the engine will stay running when the key is turned off because current will feed off the field "

And the battery will run down if the field stays energized after the key is turned off--as I have learned to the detriment of at least one battery, possibly two.

From now on I shut off both battery switches before leaving the boat, and click them off for a few seconds after arriving at an overnight destination. That opens the field circuit IF the diode is not working as it should.

The only thing that stays energized with the battery switches off is bilge pumps and my radio/ CD player--I'm sick of reprogramming the darn thing!

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

edst789
#10 Posted : Monday, August 10, 2009 11:25:32 AM(UTC)
Rank: Fiberglass Star Advanced Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 21
Points: -213

That's why the aux terminal on the switch sounds like a good place to put the wire because you don't have to worry about the diode because when the switch is off it isolates the aux term from the bat term there by preventing back feed to the coil or possible drain of the battery. I found that out after I rewired a 8n ford tractor. I used the diode on that because the switch was a simple on off switch with no aux term and the starter switch is a seperate button. Does the Marinette have an aux term on the switch?
fastjeff
#11 Posted : Monday, August 10, 2009 1:47:52 PM(UTC)
fastjeff

Rank: Administration

Medals: aluminum star: For Marinette Owners Everywhere above the call of duty

Groups: Admin2, Admin, Administration, Member, Admin2
Joined: 12/5/2007(UTC)
Posts: 3,133
Points: 5,732

Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 30 post(s)
It might, but I have one wire alternators.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

edst789
#12 Posted : Monday, August 10, 2009 2:21:40 PM(UTC)
Rank: Fiberglass Star Advanced Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 21
Points: -213

"And the battery will run down if the field stays energized after the key is turned off--as I have learned to the detriment of at least one battery, possibly two."

I must have misunderstood. You don't need a diode to excite the field on a one wire alternator because they self excite . 3 wire alternators use the diode to excite the field.
dougrose
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:03:58 AM(UTC)
dougrose

Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts

Groups: Member, Administration, Admin
Joined: 12/7/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Points: 1,746

Was thanked: 25 time(s) in 21 post(s)
On any car or truck the alternator output goes right to the battery. So there is always voltage there.

Not so when using diode splitters to drive two or more batteries from one alternator. Without the voltage on the output, my alternators would not self-excite until a considerable engine speed was reached - 1500 rpm or more, which is a lot when redline is 2800. Diesels should be started and idled until they warm up a bit, and I never knew for sure that the second engine had started.

With the diode, the alternators get voltage as soon as the ignition is turned on. The tachs work immediately, and I can see when the engine is up to idle (450 rpm). Happy camper.

That was my experience. Today, we can get devices that short the batteries together only when charging, and I would not use diodes to charge multiple batteries again.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
edst789
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 3:54:26 PM(UTC)
Rank: Fiberglass Star Advanced Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 6/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 21
Points: -213

What terminal did you put the diode on at the alternator ?
Users browsing this topic
guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.5.5 | YAF © 2003-2011, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.552 seconds.