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Rebuild and repaint
Dr Gonzo
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2010 7:37:24 AM(UTC)
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Greetings all. I am in the process of doing a top to bottom job on my 1983 37 dcfb. the boat had not been used in 13 years when I bought it and one motor had siezed up. however after soaking the cylinders in pb blaster for a month I finally busted the motor free by making a line that used a spark plug adaptor coupled to a high pressure line that was then connected to a CO2 tank. after getting both engines running it was finally taken to gibralter boat yard and hauled out. the boat is repainted by widener boat works and both engines were removed and taken to greg's custom engines in riverview for rebuilding. transmissions were taken to the dock box in st clair shores and gone thru. all that needs to happen is to put her back together this spring .

What I need to know is where the capac anoded / cathodes are located on the hull. the boat had a lot of thru hull transducers which need to come out as they are no longer needed. my plans are to install a furuno navnet 3D as the sounder and get rid of all the other 30 plus year old electronics. I post pics soon

Thanks

Dr Gonzo

p,s. Botton paint will be the EZo system from E-paint
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ComputerJoe
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2010 8:07:06 AM(UTC)
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The capac reference electrode usually will be marked "DO NOT PAINT" which most yards ignore. Do not wire brush it or you will be buying a new one. There was some discussion about chemically stripping it on this board, can't remember what the consencience was.


Mine was mid-ship by the step into the lower cabin. It was real close to the keel and has a single wire coming off its top.
Dr Gonzo
#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:59:46 AM(UTC)
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Joe: Is that located on the port side and looks like a greatly oversized transducer with an even bigger plastic or rubber collar or seal ?

If so...heres a good question ...when I blast the bottom and apply the e-paint EZo system to the bottom ...should I remove the capac, blast, apply the bottom paint system and then re-install the capac or blast arouind the capac and leave it alone ?. My gut tells me I should remove the capac and blast the entire bottom and re-install the capac with a good bead of 5200 sealant after the bottom paint has been applyed. That way the barrier coat is complete on the bottom without the chance of stray currents getting underneith the capac surround and causing pitting.

Im going to have a lot of questions as I proceed with this project and Id like to thank everyone in advance for their knowledge and help in the future.

thanks to all
Dr Gonzo
Barkleydave
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:20:36 AM(UTC)
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As they say "Let a sleeping dog lay"

The CAPAC Cathode rarely leaks if fact I have never seen one fail.

If it was mine I would leave it alone. Do not use abrasives or chemicals on it keep it clean and unpainted.

A replacement is very expensive and not alaways easy to find.

safe boating,
dave
None
Docsnow
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2010 10:32:16 AM(UTC)
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Dr Gonzo,

First off Welcome aboard Applause If U do take the sender off the connection has to resealed really good when replaced if I can find the write up on it I'll update post in the mean time here's a pic of what it looks like

Norm,

Big BigMs Live On Applause
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 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
jralbert
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:02:57 PM(UTC)
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"...should I remove the capac"

As noted above, it's not necessary if the Capac unit is working. But if you are blasting, cover it thoroughly. When my boat bottom was blasted, I covered the whole thing, plastic surround and all with an aluminum pie plate cut to fit (approx 10" dia) and fastened with several layers of masking tape. You don't want any abrasives near the center of the capac...ever. It's very thin metal (silver/silver chloride) and will be wrecked if you damage it. If you are ditching your other current transducers, no need to protect them. Not sure why you'd throw out a working instrument, though. You may appreciate a backup with your new systems.

5200: use it only where the installation will be permanent. But if you think you'll ever want to remove the sealed object, use 4200. (DIY magazine, however, has recommended a product that will remove 5200. I can't remember its name)
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
Ed
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2010 4:07:53 PM(UTC)
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In an ideal world, it would be nice to remove it. Think you will find it's hard to remove without damaging it, so then you have more problems. I removed mine and welded up the hole ( and most of the others ) Now I just hang it over the side and connect it to digital voltmeter, and voltmeter to the hull. Just so I don't drop it. --Ed
BUSIA
32 foot, no flybridge, twin 350 (chevy) Crusaders, closed (freshwater) cooling, 1:1 Velvet drive transmissions.
Proud to be IBEW.
fastjeff
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:32:47 PM(UTC)
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Ditto, Ed, but I sealed the hole with giant washers.

The 'over the side' probe works nice, but not underway. (Big deal.) You can be a hero at your marina (long as the marina staff ain't looking!) by checking plastic boat's outdrives and etc. for their owners.

Jeff1
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

Dr Gonzo
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 28, 2010 6:40:02 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the pic ....yep thats what I figured it was on my boat. the other transducers are depth sounder transducers for both the upper and lower helm. the holes are roughly about 1" in diameter and had wooden fairing blocks that were pretty much done. The third transducer is the same size as the new transducer that is used with the furuno navnet 3D which is about 2 1/4". Most of the electronics on the boat are 36 to 38 years old except for the 2 ship to shore radios which were about 18 years old. Since Im going this far whith new paint and machinery rebuilds, it only makes sence to install new electroincs for good measure. im also installing new ISS pro gauges at both helm stations.

When Im done (yea right) what ill have is a nice simple layout free from clutter, machinery thats worry free and a paint job that will last for years.

With regards to the engines, im going with MSD distributors and the marine version of the 6a box. Im also going with performer intake manifolds and new aluminum waterpumps. All the hoses will be replaced thru-out the entire boat to new hoses that have marine certs inked on them (surveyer said it needed to happen)

thanks

Dr Gonzo

'
Docsnow
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 28, 2010 7:47:36 AM(UTC)
Docsnow

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Dr Gonzo

Here's the hook up for the senor

Norm,

Big BigMs Live On Applause
Docsnow attached the following image(s):
Docsnow attached the following image(s): Capac senor.jpg
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

http://www.PictureTrail..../index.php?clubID=20726 this one for the Pix club


 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
fastjeff
#11 Posted : Friday, January 29, 2010 12:00:40 AM(UTC)
fastjeff

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Dr. Gonzo:

Don't even think of adding those aluminum parts unless you have a fresh water cooling system!

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

Dr Gonzo
#12 Posted : Friday, January 29, 2010 6:26:26 AM(UTC)
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The boat has been and will be used on lake erie. The performer intake is a better manifold and that, with the addition of the waterpump (circulation) will shave off a few pounds and give the boat better fuel economy. Greg, the engine builder and I have been discussing a change in the cam profile to reduce combustion chamber temps and make the engines run more efficiently and with better power from idle to midrange crusing rpms.

The boat rides very nice at 1700 rpms and since the boat will rarely see anything over 2400 rpms the thought was to increase the torque at idle up to about 2600 rpms to give the boat better power for docking in windy conditions and to keep her in that sweet spot with extra passengers aboard so as not to have the need for the use of trim tabs.

thanks for the advice jeff.

Dr Gonzo
Dr Gonzo
#13 Posted : Friday, January 29, 2010 6:27:09 AM(UTC)
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ohhh ...and yes, the boat has fresh water cooling
jralbert
#14 Posted : Friday, January 29, 2010 7:21:30 AM(UTC)
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If you are replacing water pumps because the current ones are shot, that's fine. But if you are replacing to save weight, won't don't you use the funds for something else (like the Norm beer fund) because the weight savings is insignificant and you'll gain neither speed nor fuel consumption improvement that will pay for the pumps in your lifetime. Unsolicited two cents.
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
Docsnow
#15 Posted : Friday, January 29, 2010 8:42:19 PM(UTC)
Docsnow

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jralbert wrote:

why don't you use the funds for something else (like the Norm beer fund)

Joel,

U always come up with great ideas Applause How did U know the brewski fund was drying up Think

Norm,

Big BigMs Live On Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

http://www.PictureTrail..../index.php?clubID=20726 this one for the Pix club


 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
fastjeff
#16 Posted : Friday, January 29, 2010 11:10:53 PM(UTC)
fastjeff

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..."ohhh ...and yes, the boat has fresh water cooling "

Thank heavens!

Jeff

PS: I'm interested in seeing how well that intake combo performs. We had a lively conversation (on another site) regarding hop up of Chrysler small blocks. The consensus of opinion was that cam and heads are the best thing one can do to improve performance on these deliberately "truck like" marine engines.
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

Dr Gonzo
#17 Posted : Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:29:06 AM(UTC)
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The performer intake has a much better flowrate and is better than the stock cast iron units when it comes to bottom end torque even with a stock cam profile. As far as the circulation pumps go...their 38 years old and the new edelbrock units were basically free so why not use them rather than spend money for rebuilt stock units. Since Weber bought Carter and Carter supplys Edelbrock, rebuild kits for the stock carbs is easy rather than getting cheep aftermarket kits.

Dr Gonzo
Doug Doty
#18 Posted : Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:04:41 PM(UTC)
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Dr Gonzo wrote:
The performer intake has a much better flowrate and is better than the stock cast iron units when it comes to bottom end torque even with a stock cam profile. As far as the circulation pumps go...their 38 years old and the new edelbrock units were basically free so why not use them rather than spend money for rebuilt stock units. Since Weber bought Carter and Carter supplys Edelbrock, rebuild kits for the stock carbs is easy rather than getting cheep aftermarket kits.

Dr Gonzo


I am with you on the aluminum parts, They will give me grief when I do it too, but my 39 w/ 440's is going to get edelbrock intakes and evaluation time, then heads and some more evaluation, then 750 carbs and some testing then maybe the matching cams for the performer package. Just be prepared to have to rev. it a little harder to realize the power potential. Edelbrock says 25 hp. for the intakes by themselves and they have told it straight in the past in my experience. Lets face it, mileage on boats sucks and if mine goes from 1.7 at a slow cruise to 1.4 who cares if it goes 3 or 4 mph faster on top end, I like to blow the cob webs out regularly, been a drag racer for 25 years and my boats get tinkered with too. Never made one slower or less dependable yet. Can you say "NITROUS" for that occasional Gibson houseboat that thinks he's fast.
466 Bertram FDMY, " Easy Rider "
1984 39 Marinette sedan, " LIBERTY ONE "
440'S 19x22 wheels, 710 HOURS

Dr Gonzo
#19 Posted : Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:05:32 PM(UTC)
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Speed is not what I'm after with this project. Life moves to fast for me as it is. A marinette is a displacement hull so any more power isnt going to move you thru the water any faster it will just cost you more money and harder wear on the transmissions. The one thing I found out real quick about marinettes as compared to other boats i've run of the same size is that they are like kites. A good strong wind while docking will blow you around like a paper airplane.

Torque is what really moves a boat thru the water not horsepower. The chrysler 440-M was made more for trucks where the useable power band / torque curve came in at about 1500 to 3500 rpm using a holly 780 or a thermoquad and the stock cam. What Im looking for is a stronger motor from idle to about 3000 rpm with the power / torque curve coming in much earlyer. This will help the boat respond better when docking and make for a much smoother more controlled ride with 6 + passengers aboard.

The build is going to go like this. After cleaning, the blocks will inspected and if each one passes then they will move to the machining stage where the line bore of both the cam and the crank will be checked and corrected as needed to match blueprint specs. After that the crank will get the full treatment. balancing, micro polishing, oil holes ect ect. The stock rods will also get the full treatment for better oiling of the bearings. new pistons will be hung on the rods and the cylinder bores will be milled and honed with a deck plate to exacting specs. Once the rotating assembly is installed the motors will get a high volume oil pump and dual roller timing chains from cloyes. The cams will be sent out and re-ground to a profile that will make better torque at idle thru 3400 rpm while at the same time lowering combustion chamber temps. The heads willl get the full treatment as well with the addition of a true roller rocker arm assembly. This will reduce valvetrain stress and help economy.

I'm not doing anything radical or hi-performance with the engines, just better machining and heavy duty parts. Ill still be using the stock carter AFB but with a better intake manifold and an M.S.D ignition . Once the engines are run in we might coax a friend to bring his lap top and air fuel measurement sensors and see how close we are to the 14.7 to 1 air /fuel ratio from idle to W.O.T. and adjust the jets and metering rods so that the engines run just slightly rich past the 14.7:1 ratio thru the entire operating range.

Why am I going the extra mile with the motors...well because these things were a major pain in the ass to remove from the boat and are going to be just as much of a pain to get them back in so why take any chance of something going wrong and having to pull one of the motors out again. The other reason is because fuel isnt getting any cheaper and I see no reason to feed any more money to the damm oil companys than I absolutely have to. What I will get is a set of ultra dependable engines that get great economy with less pollution and last the rest of the boats life.

Dr Gonzo
Dr Gonzo
#20 Posted : Saturday, January 30, 2010 5:26:03 PM(UTC)
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Oh one more thing ...you cant use automotive cams in marine engines and they have to be machined on a 112 degree center. Anthing less and you will suck water back into the combustion chambers thru reversion when you shut the engines off ...and for god sakes dont use hollys. Stay with the carter A.F.B's and If your smart you will change out the perko fuel strainers and replace them with MerCruiser water seperating fuel filters. Their much safer and easyer to change.

Dr Gonzo
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