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MSD Blasters and Ignition Module Failure
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collins69s
#1 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 3:03:28 PM(UTC)
collins69s

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Hey guys. Hope all had a good weekend. I installed MSD Blaster coils Saturday afternoon. .. I have 318's with Prestolite distributors with the ignition module that goes inside the distributor. Took the boat out Saturday night to pick up my daughter at Cedar Point, about a 20 minute ride at night and it ran great. Really great. We were only cruising at @ 2000 RPM the whole way, it was dark and the lake was very calm. Got to Cedar Point, waited a few minutes for my daughter and the stbd engine dies. Starts for a second and dies. Runs for maybe 20 sec and dies. We go back home on port engine only trying to start every couple minutes and the same thing happens every time. Get to the dock retrace my steps blah blah. Now it wont start at all and no spark. Bottom line is module is dead. switched with port module and fired right up and ran fine. So my question is: coincidence with the MSD's or did they fry it? Modules look to be very old, though probably not original.
Thanks!
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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fastjeff
#2 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 11:13:40 PM(UTC)
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Quite possible if they were used parts.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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collins69s
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:31:29 AM(UTC)
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Well the MSD's are brand new if that's what you mean, Jeff. And the modules are the ones that have been on my boat for ? how long. I bought two new modules ( flat ones that fit inside the distributor, two wires to coil only). I don't want to fry them if those coils are the culprit. The coil doesn't send a pulse through the modules, just to the spark plug, correct? The prestolite coil that the book calls for is 40k volts, and these are 45k volts so I don't know if that's a huge difference.
Thanks!
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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pfhlaw
#4 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 5:20:12 AM(UTC)
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Sean
If you are talking about the original ECU, I believe the second set of terminals on the 4 prong resistor reduce the 12 volts to something less for the older 5-terminal electronic modules.
pfhlaw attached the following image(s):
pfhlaw attached the following image(s): Old Chrysler ECU.gif
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collins69s
#5 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 6:37:55 AM(UTC)
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Thanks, but that's not the style I have. I don't have any five pronged plug. My module is inside of the distributor.. It's flat with a hole in the center where it fits down over the reluctor . It only has two wires coming out of it. One for each side of the coil. And that's all, folks.. Apparently these are earlier than the module boxes..My boat is a '72. So the coil has four wires on it, five counting the coil wire itself (top of distributor). A hot wire out of the distributor off the module, and the hot wire from the alt. It has a negative wire from the distributor off the module, and a ground wire that goes into the wiring harness.. Two wires each pole, coil wire out the top.
Thanks,
Sean
File Attachment(s):
Prestolite Module Top.jpeg (125kb) downloaded 34 time(s).
Prestolite Module Bottom.jpeg (129kb) downloaded 27 time(s).
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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fastjeff
#6 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:46:31 AM(UTC)
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Buy a new module, install it right (below), and you'll be fine.

Most modules need a 'heat sink' to keep them cool. The trick is to be SUREe the module is resting dead flat on its mounting surface AND has a layer of conductive grease (see a good NAPA store) to promote heat transfer. If not, then tend to overheat and....You know.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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collins69s
#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:25:25 AM(UTC)
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Hey Jeff, the only mounting surface is about a .30 edge around the diameter of the distributor and the two small flanges the module bolts to. Not much of a heat sink.. And that is my new one..
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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fastjeff
#9 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:25:37 AM(UTC)
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Yikes! I assume they took that into consideration when they designed it.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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collins69s
#10 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:36:52 PM(UTC)
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So what is the verdict? new coils are the problem or co-inky dink?
Thanks,
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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fastjeff
#11 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:39:28 PM(UTC)
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The coils are 12 volt types (not 9 volt types that have to have a ballast resistor) so there's nothing wrong with there (unless they're shorted out somehow). I'd say it's just a bad MSD module--it happens.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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collins69s
#12 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:14:39 AM(UTC)
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You mean ignition module? Those were on the boat ( prestolites, possibly original) when I installed the new MSD coils. I'm headed up there now to put the new module in, true up the shaft that the rotor is on and hopefully not have to mess with it this weekend.
Thanks!
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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Rick100
#13 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 2:05:17 AM(UTC)
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The prestolite distributors you have are most likely fitted with aftermarket pertronix ignition modules as most if not all 72's used points. The module in the dist can work with up to 15 volts and no resistor is needed but could be used. These are pretty good setups and are dependable and easy to repair. They work on the KISS principle. I think Pertronix made a distributor for the 318 and I will check to see as I have two spares that I got to put in my 318's with oe electronic ignitions. I never got around to doing that as the oe Chrysler setup works just fine and the parts for it are cheap. Rick
When I die I hope my wife sells my stuff for more than I told her I paid for it.
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collins69s
#15 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:14:59 AM(UTC)
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Cool. Let me know Rick. I went up today and installed the new modules and it fired right up. The dist. shaft looks like it out of whack about .20 and I didn't have my dial indicator with me to true it up. That can be done while it's still in the block I would think.. Anybody ever have to do that?
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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Roger2
#16 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:33:35 PM(UTC)
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If you are looking at wobble or runout, it will only be 1/2 of what it looks like. been there!

Roger
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1983 37 double cabin, twin 230hp Volvo diesels, twin disk 1.5-1 20X 23 4 blade props
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collins69s
#17 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 12:56:55 PM(UTC)
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So did you try to true it up? Mine needs it for sure.. How did it work out? Do tell...
Thanks,
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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fastjeff
#18 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 10:45:51 PM(UTC)
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A wobble like that is not good! The rotor may try to hit the cap (smashing itself), or possibly not allow the spark to jump the gap if the wobble moves the rotor tip away from the cap. This might also have caused the module to crap out, but that's stretching it a bit.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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Rick100
#19 Posted : Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:39:14 PM(UTC)
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Sean, The spare distributors I have are prestolite that have been fitted with pertronix modules and reluctors. The pertronix modules look different than the one you have ( much smaller). The wobble you have is most likely caused by worn bushings or a worn housing. Early Chrysler distributors had bushings that could be replaced but later ones, if I remember correctly, used the housing as the bearing. The small amount of play you have may not cause a problem but make sure the clearance between the module and reluctor if enough so they don't crash.
When I die I hope my wife sells my stuff for more than I told her I paid for it.
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collins69s
#20 Posted : Thursday, July 29, 2010 2:59:02 AM(UTC)
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It's not wobble, it's bent. The narrow shaft the rotor and reluctor shaft slides over. Looks like it's 3/8 threaded rod..
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
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collins69s
#21 Posted : Sunday, August 01, 2010 5:24:55 PM(UTC)
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So I took a magnetic base dial indicator to the boat on Saturday.. The shaft was running out about .020. A PITA more or less to true up..But I got it within .005.. The rod that the reluctor/rotor shaft fits over is about a 5/16 threaded rod.. The only thing that holds the reluctor in place is a small spring clip that seats in a groove about 1/4 from the top of the rod..no pin or set screw to hold it place.. How the hell does that work? Anyhow, got it all squared away and she ran great today.. Really great.. So I have installed in the last week, new coils, and new ignition modules.. Think I'll double check the voltage regs next, there is a different style one on each engine.. Bruce at Lakeland Marine will hook me up with the correct new ones..
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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fastjeff
#22 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 10:04:13 AM(UTC)
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Good work. Very satisfying when your eyeball lathe and hammer gets a shaft straightened out.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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