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Shore Power Hook Up
Docsnow
#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:27:46 PM(UTC)
Docsnow

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To All,

Like I’ve always said if it been done to a BigM Someone on this site has done it on this site
My question is has anyone out there put a second shore power hook up on their boat ? My plan is
to put one up front where the bow seat is at so I don’t have to have such a long shore power cord,
that way no matter which way I put in at dock side all I’ll need is a 25'er of course just as long as
I don’t bring her in side ways d'oh! Going to run some #10 AGW marine wire from bow connection
to wiring hook up behind helm will I need some sort of breaker or will I be able to hook directly
to present post seeing there will only be one shore power cord as not to screw up & hook two up
at the same. Think As most of U’s have gather by now my electrical skills are some what challenged. ( Jeff,
I don’t wantta hear anything about being challenged in other areas also cause I’ve left the door
wide open for U on this one )-: Shame on you Any suggestions or ideas are welcome Thanks in advance so if I
don’t get a chance to get back at U it’ll be thar’s a lot prep work that’ll have to be done in the
next 4/5 days Ya All have a GREAT & SAFE boating season an as for U Steve U beat me to the
draw again d'oh!

Norm,

BIGBigMs Live On Applause
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 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
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fastjeff
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:03:16 PM(UTC)
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Why, I wouldn't think of inserting a zinger here, Norm!

Agreed on the long power cord. Since we bow in, the cord is tie wrapped to the railing posts all the way to the bow--ugly but necessary. Gotta be a better solution, but I'd hate like hell to run an AC cable from the Vee berth area all the way to the panel. Besides, I'd have to buy a new outlet and...
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

MHYZHEN
#3 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:15:03 AM(UTC)
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the only thing ide pay extra attention too is the fact that you will have an energized connection point unless you install a breaker of some sort between the new connection point and where you tie it into the system............

thats a great idea i think though.....im actually thinking of doing the same thing myself, and then carrying just 2 short 25 footers for hookup.....
http://theboaters.com/bo...te/express/1964/MHYZHEN

One more busted knuckle and i'll have a complete set !
dougrose
#4 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:28:09 AM(UTC)
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Worse than running the new wire to the panel is what to do with the unused shore power connector. If you just run the bow connector into the panel, then the cockpit plug will be live when the bow is plugged in. This is bad because the cockpit plug is a plug -- it has exposed contacts. Even if it has a screw-on cover (most do) there is a hazard there, and no surveyor worth his salt would approve it. The exposed prongs always go downstream from the power source.

You could install a DPDT switch somewhere that would select which plug, cockpit or bow, connects to the panel. Or, you could run the wire from the bow plug to a socket next to the plug in the cockpit. To use the forward plug, just connect a short jumper between the socket and plug in the cockpit. To use the cockpit plug, remove the jumper and plug right in.

All things considered, the tie-wraps along the rail aren't sounding so bad....


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
SORRYDOG2
#5 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:44:14 AM(UTC)
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Installed dual hook up on Sorrydog for stern and bow docking. Used standard breaker box and built alum arm guard over breakers so only one set can be turned on at a time. Kinda looks like a pair of scissors with on end fixed with bolt to panel housing or an X over the breakers. Wiring then goes to a 3 pole breaker front and rear at the dock plug. 3 pole breakers as I am 50 amp. Breakers inside are standard sqaure D. Sorrydog.
jsimanella
#6 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:10:15 AM(UTC)
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Dog made a "Transfer Switch", like what your genset uses. It's an absolute MUST, for the reasons Doug mentioned.

You can find a genset transfer switch to do the same thing. Very unlikely that you would be able to find a DPDT swich cheap and strong enough to handle start-up loads, which often exceed running amps (30) by up to 6x - That's 180 amps on motor loads. Obviously, you don't have 30a of motors and compressors, but you do need to have a margin of error.

Be careful in these situations.

John
--
1987 32 Sedan Bridge
Twin 360s, Rebuilt 2006
Modified/Original Electronic Ignition
Raw Water Cooled
Catawba Island, Ohio
jhall767
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 5:09:52 AM(UTC)
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What you are looking for is called a source selector switch. They are designed so only one source can be connected at a time. Anything less is illegal and dangerous. West marine has them for less than $100 for selecting between two 30 amp sources.

John
NightMoves
#8 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:19:02 AM(UTC)
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Hell for the price and the hassle I would just use the cord I have and be done with it. Put the 100.00 in the tank or the cooler.

Mike
marinettejoe
#9 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:50:40 AM(UTC)
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I have the 2DPDT for shore for aft/fore hookup and a separate one for gen(both by ONAN). I only use the front connector since I have it for air/conditioning.
weird setup, but works OK.
Unzinced ships sink at slips. yep
Docsnow
#10 Posted : Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:22:57 PM(UTC)
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To All,

Thanks for your valued opinions & suggestions. So all I’d need is one of those switches & things
would be Kosher Whistle Looked it up in W/M cat. knowing they are the most pricey but I’ll have time
to look around & find it for less. Pray Again I value this site opinions Applause Even old SorryDog, bet he’s got
one of them laying around some where & could send it for shipping & handling oh rats the handling would be around $150 + shipping d'oh! Again Thanks this is truly a valued site Applause

Norm,

BIG BigMs Live On Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

http://www.PictureTrail..../index.php?clubID=20726 this one for the Pix club


 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
SORRYDOG2
#11 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2008 12:43:23 AM(UTC)
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Hey, I might have one!! Its a generator transfer switch, left over from my boat. Its mounted in the old panel, I'll check the shed. If I have it tis yours. Sorrydog
dougrose
#12 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2008 4:53:46 AM(UTC)
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John, you greatly underestimate my ability to find good cheap surplus stuff.

If you are not going to move the switch under load, the surge is not really a problem. I would consider a DPDT toggle switch like http://www.mouser.com/Se...kqwsox9Y9H8TKiHig%3d%3d for around $22.

I am using all toggle switches because they have a period look that I like. Those of you with newer boats would probably prefer something modren. I like SD2's idea of using two breakers with a lockout. I have seen this a lot on big boats.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
Docsnow
#14 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2008 11:07:27 AM(UTC)
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SorryDog,

I love it when people use them four letter words like FREE, HAVE,Applause U the Man ole Buddy. PM
me the shipping if U find it. Pray Well gotta run near Beer 30 sum place see ifin I can win some $$$ at
euchre tonightWell gotta run near Beer 30 sum place see ifin I can win some $$$ at
euchre tonight Anxious

BIG BigMs Live On Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

http://www.PictureTrail..../index.php?clubID=20726 this one for the Pix club


 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
jsimanella
#13 Posted : Friday, April 18, 2008 12:56:52 PM(UTC)
jsimanella

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[quote=dougrose]

If you are not going to move the switch under load, the surge is not really a problem. I would consider a DPDT toggle switch like http://www.mouser.com/Se...kqwsox9Y9H8TKiHig%3d%3d for around $22.

I don't underestimate you ;) Those look like nice switches at a good price.

I'd want to know the HP rating of them, though. It's not you, flipping the switches, it's the guests and gremlins that worry me :) As an electrician, I always have to take common sense out of the equation. Common sense tells me that people shouldn't put their hands in an open, energized panel, but some people are just slow learners :) That's why I close them up or lock them out...

A breaker is designed to take hits many times what their ratings are. Think about what dead shorts generate, in terms of amps (thousands of amps). Switches, not so much. That's why we use starters on motors - fast acting, heavy contacts. A 15a (a little over 1HP @ 120v) compressor motor starts at up to 6x its RLA - that could be 90a. I have A/C, central vac, water heater, ice maker, and a 20a inverter / charger, as my heaviest loads. Obviously, they are on 2 separate circuits, but they often approach 30a on each leg. Hate to flip that switch then.
--
1987 32 Sedan Bridge
Twin 360s, Rebuilt 2006
Modified/Original Electronic Ignition
Raw Water Cooled
Catawba Island, Ohio
dougrose
#15 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 1:07:40 AM(UTC)
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Nothing like giving someone advice on wiring and then finding out that he is an electrician. Sort of like explaining to the cardiologist what all those little squiggles mean.

The switches in the link are only motor rated for 1 hp, so no inductive loads over 750 watts. I actually prefer to use sealed military togges per MIL-S-3950 because I am so familiar with them. They cost a little more and can be found at http://www.alliedelec.co...mp;sid=480936004D15E17F but this series is only rated to 20 amps.

I plan to use a four-position power selector: OFF, 110V, 220V, and INVERTER. My isolation transformer has separate windings that allow use on 110 or 220 -- who knows, maybe someday I'll get someplace that uses the higher voltage.... At any rate, I plan to buy http://surpluscenter.com...15&catname=electric and cut it down to the three decks that I actually need. It is an excellent quality switch at a cheap price and you might want to look at it.

I don't want an automatic transfer switch because I don't want too much stuff happening on its own. I prefer to select INVERTER and then turn the thing on myself.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
jsimanella
#16 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:18:48 AM(UTC)
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2nd link is no good - can you post it again?
--
1987 32 Sedan Bridge
Twin 360s, Rebuilt 2006
Modified/Original Electronic Ignition
Raw Water Cooled
Catawba Island, Ohio
dougrose
#17 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:54:47 PM(UTC)
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Sure, it's http://www.surpluscenter...15&catname=electric

My bad. My browser is set to add "www." or ".com" to the URL if they are left off, so when I checked the link, the fact that I had left off the "www." didn't keep it from loading.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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