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LCD Hour Meter Connections
jhall767
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:45:14 AM(UTC)
jhall767

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I looking to add LCD hour meters to the boat. They are low current draw (6ma). http://www.enmco.com/home.shtml (T39AA)

I'm thinking I can hook them in parallel to the oil pressure alarm switch so that when the alarm is turned on and the oil pressure is up they will run. When the oil pressure drops the alarm switch closes to ground. This will leave zero voltage potential at the hour meter. When the oil alarm switch is open (no alarm) there will be too much resistance (2k) through the hour meter to allow the alarm to sound.

Will this work or am I missing something?

Thanks

John
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dougrose
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:04:29 AM(UTC)
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You could test it by putting the 2K across the oil switch, but it certainly looks as though it will work. The alarm itself draws rather a lot, doesn't it?


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
cruiseat6k
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:44:22 AM(UTC)
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Could you put a Tee on the oil pressure switch? If so you could install a second switch for the hour meter.

Cort
jhall767
#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2008 2:15:31 AM(UTC)
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Yes I could tee the oil gallery again but then I would need to buy the fittings and two pressure switches. Really didn't want to add more fittings to the oil gallery if I didn't need to. There is already a mechanical gauge, electric gauge and alarm. The alarm has to draw an amp or something like that right? Its the light + mechanical buzzer. If I remember my high school electronics right the alarm will be about 10 ohms and the meter about 2000 ohms. When they are in series there will be 1/200th of the voltage potential across the alarm and 199/200th's across the hour meter. When the alarm sender closes (engine off) it will be in parallel with the hour meter. There will be maybe .01 ohms on that circuit. So there will be 1/1000th of the voltage available at the hour meter. Not enough to trigger it.

I'll probably try it and if the alarm sort of comes on start adding resistors in series with the hour meter.

John
cruiseat6k
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:51:15 PM(UTC)
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The oil pressure switch is eather open or closed. When open it will not run either alarm or hour meter. when closed it will run both. The switch closes giving a ground to complete the circuit for your alarm. When oil pressure is up the switch is open your hour meter will have an open circuit, no ground so it will not regester while your engine is running. You need a switch that will close when the oil pressure is up. If you could find a switch that has an open and closed output it would work. Hope this helps let me know how it goes.

Cort
jhall767
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 07, 2008 4:54:27 PM(UTC)
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cruiseat6k wrote:
The oil pressure switch is eather open or closed. When open it will not run either alarm or hour meter. when closed it will run both. The switch closes giving a ground to complete the circuit for your alarm. When oil pressure is up the switch is open your hour meter will have an open circuit, no ground so it will not regester while your engine is running. You need a switch that will close when the oil pressure is up. If you could find a switch that has an open and closed output it would work. Hope this helps let me know how it goes.

Cort


No Cort the hour meter will be in parallel with the switch and in series with the alarm. When the engine is running the switch will be open. The series of alarm - hour meter will have too much resistance for the alarm but the voltage will be there to activate the hour meter. When the engine stops the oil switch closes and both sides of the hour meter will be connected thus no voltage to trigger it. I'm just not sure if this circuit will work or if I will need to add resistors to keep the alarm from sounding. Or if I'll need a transistor to trigger the hour meter. I'm going ahead with it so I'll let everybody know.

John
dougrose
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:15:14 AM(UTC)
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Just a thought (my boat is completely different) but isn't there also an overtemp switch that is wired in too?

The generic wiring schematic at http://www.geocities.com...ette_Wiring_Generic.pdf shows the two alarm switches in series, and opening either one should open the circuit to the alarm, causing it to sound.

This would mean that the oil pressure switch would need to be normally open, and would close when there is oil pressure, while the overtemperature switch would be closed when the engine is cool or normal, and open when the temperature is too high.

IF this is so, then wiring across the oil pressure switch would record the hours that the engine is not running. The LCD counter would have to be wired from ignition to the hot side of the oil pressure switch, so that it will record hours while the oil pressure switch is closed.

Or, maybe it's the wrong schematic. What does that Rose guy know, anyway?


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
jhall767
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:22:50 AM(UTC)
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dougrose wrote:
Just a thought (my boat is completely different) but isn't there also an overtemp switch that is wired in too?

The generic wiring schematic at http://www.geocities.com...ette_Wiring_Generic.pdf shows the two alarm switches in series, and opening either one should open the circuit to the alarm, causing it to sound.

This would mean that the oil pressure switch would need to be normally open, and would close when there is oil pressure, while the overtemperature switch would be closed when the engine is cool or normal, and open when the temperature is too high.

IF this is so, then wiring across the oil pressure switch would record the hours that the engine is not running. The LCD counter would have to be wired from ignition to the hot side of the oil pressure switch, so that it will record hours while the oil pressure switch is closed.

Or, maybe it's the wrong schematic. What does that Rose guy know, anyway?


I think that schematic is wrong. If either switch opens there is no where for the current to flow to activate the alarm. The switch must close to allow current to pass through the alarm. The switches close in alarm condition to complete the circuit. They are wired in parallel. With the engine off and cold the oil pressure switch should be closed and the temp switch open. If any switch closes the alarm circuit is completed. Some alarm systems work in the reverse but even in that case the schematic is still incorrect. You would need three wires connected to the alarm. Power, signal or trigger and ground. Or maybe I'm looking at it wrong :)

John
dougrose
#9 Posted : Thursday, May 08, 2008 3:41:21 AM(UTC)
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The generic Marinette schematic was furnished to me by another member -- I simply drew it up and stuck it on the web, so I cannot vouch for the circuit. My boat had no wires...

Generally, alarm systems use either series or parallel circuits, and the sensors are either normally closed, or normally open, respectively. "Normally" means the "no alarm" condition.

Series circuits have the huge advantage that they sound the alarm if any wire connection is broken. That is what the schematic shows, perhaps others will weigh in to correct it based on their own boats.

Parallel circuits, like the one I use, can use alarm switches that are connected to ground. I went that route because the engines came with normally open "one terminal" switches. Nothing in mine is stock Marinette.

You are quite correct, the alarm horn needs to be a three-terminal device. I drew it to the old Marinette schematic, but there must be a ground on it somewhere. Sometimes these things are informal -- grounded thru the panel or whatever.

Please, all, send me your schematics along with the year of your boat, and I will post same and try to make some sense of it. Eventually, it would be great if a first owner could just look up the year of his boat and then download his schematics.... It would have saved me a lot of work if I had had something like this when I first started Marinetting.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
jhall767
#10 Posted : Friday, May 09, 2008 1:31:01 AM(UTC)
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Does anybody actually have the alarm switches wired in series? I know my 81 didn't. This would mean you have 3 wires attached to your alarm buzzer. If you do I'm curious as to the make of the alarm.

Thanks

John
fastjeff
#11 Posted : Friday, May 09, 2008 4:13:14 AM(UTC)
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Not sure if this is what you mean, but I separated my dual engine alarms, using a relay to quell the oil pressure switches. Works great! I keep the alarm switch on all the time now, and the buzzers only sound with the ignition on (before oil pressure comes up).

Why go to all that trouble? With gas prices the way they are, I intend to run on one engine a bunch this summer. The old alarm system does not allow that.

Jeff
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jhall767
#12 Posted : Friday, May 09, 2008 4:10:31 PM(UTC)
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Fastjeff wrote:
Not sure if this is what you mean, but I separated my dual engine alarms, using a relay to quell the oil pressure switches. Works great! I keep the alarm switch on all the time now, and the buzzers only sound with the ignition on (before oil pressure comes up).

Why go to all that trouble? With gas prices the way they are, I intend to run on one engine a bunch this summer. The old alarm system does not allow that.

Jeff


Yeah that single alarm was a major design flaw. That's why I find it hard to believe that Marinette would have put a circuit monitoring alarm in. Every boat alarm I've seen installed or for sale (including my 1981) is a +12V to alarm to sensor setup. Sensor switch closes and the alarm sounds. This works fine unless a wire breaks and then the alarm cannot sound. The schematic Doug has shows a circuit with all sensor switches in series. To do this you need a relay that is held open when power is applied. When any switch in series opens (or a wire breaks) the circuit fails and energizes the alarm. I'm doubtful that a company that wouldn't spring for a separate alarm for each engine would put in a circuit monitoring alarm!

John
dougrose
#13 Posted : Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:37:20 AM(UTC)
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I don't wish to mislead anybody with that schematic, so I will at least put a note on it. Could someone post or send me the alarm wiring the way it is supposed to be? Wouldn't hurt to put in Jeff's addition in dotted lines so others can make use of it....

As a matter of principle, there should be NO connections between the two engines, to keep the two engines independent and prevent single-point failures that might stop both engines. Sounds like Jeff has a method that does this.....


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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