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Joined: 12/3/2007 Posts: 225 Points: 424 Location: Stafford
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Antifouling paint with coprous-oxide in it will cause corrosion. Trilux 33 is the only current product from Interlux that is suitable for aluminum hulls. Trilux CSC and others are not for use on aluminum hulls. If the guy usually does fiberglass he probably doesn't know that you can't use the same stuff on aluminum. It would not be the first time it has happened. How do you control the bottom growth without lifting, pressure-washing and touching up/painting the hull? I would guess the ablative properties of the anti-fouling paint would be long gone by now. (Lasts a year or so depending on boat usage.) I have a 1979 28' flybridge express on Lake Hartwell, Anderson SC on I 85 North of Atlanta. It has been on this lake since 1989. Fresh Trilux painted three years ago. Prior to that it had never been hauled. When it was, the bottom and the keel zincs were fine but the rudder zincs and the rudder were eaten up. The rudder was steel. (Brilliant engineering there!) I switched this year to No-Foul ZO (sol by E-Paint) which uses hydrogen peroxide as its barnacle inhibiting agent. I could not be more pleased. The boat (32' FBS) was hauled this afternoon and was virtually free of barnacles and slime. We are on the Chesapeake Bay where the water is "brackish", a combination of fresh and salt water. I don't want to knock a relatively decent product, but the NoFoul gave far superior results to Trilux, which I had been using for years. The most dramatic difference was visible on the four patches where stands propped up the boat in the yard and which I could not paint before spring launching. The Trilux-coated rectangles had pretty well fed barnacle critters gripping the hull while the adjoining NoFoul surface was clean. I noticed only a very slight speed drop from spring to fall and did not have to engage a diver this year which paid for about half my paint job (typical diver charge around here for a '32 is $120; NoFoul is $140-ish/gallon, two gallons required). It adhered very well except on the props and rudders, which are almost impossible surfaces to hold paint. The No Foul people told me the most effective color was white because it reacts to sunlight to give off the peroxide. I was reluctant to use it for cosmetic reasons but realized that's only an issue up on the yard, not in the water where color below the water line doesn't make much difference. So, I used a contrasting color (gray) for the first coat to provide a wear "signal". And, the white top coat. This is one area where the relatively small incremental cost should not weigh in your consideration. Protecting the hull is crucial to the boat's health. In fresh water, based on my experience when I first got boat bottom paint lasted at least two seasons. So, consider that a way to get the paint for half price. Try this to see whether the paint is holding up: Apply the new coats of bottom paint in a different color. Then you'll see how much the new coat is wearing by the "signal coat" underneath.
I have been using Trilux II. Did you paint the No-Foul ZO on right on top of Trilux?
Yes, but roughen up the Trilux first with an abrasive pad, then painted over it, for there was considerable flaking of the top coat of Trilux. My yard says that's normal. I did two coats all over but added a third coat from the water line down for about a foot (where it ablates away faster). I put two or three coats of the Trilux primer on the shafts then several coats of No Foul. Most paint came off the shafts & rudders but there was no slime/barnacle buildup. Supposedly, Trilux and a number of other AF bottom paints are more likely to flake when the boat is properly zinced. If they are in a 1.05 volt or higher environment, the paint is attacked. That's OK; better the paint than the aluminum. Also marine life loves a zinced boat.
I used Trilux . Another Capt. said he had poor success with Trilux 33 & that he used the E paint and was not to happy with the out come of that product either.
This is the second report on the hull bottom condition of my 32 sedan after two years in the water with the hull prepared as described in a previous post. This time, rather than inspect with a light and divers gear, I let my curiosity (and a little good judgment) get the best of me and hauled it for a good inspection. I spent an hour inspecting everything, which is normally under water; nothing out of order. Magnesium strips darkened but no bubbling, except for the little discs on the rudders. Every fitting and adjacent area was perfect. The bare aluminum area on the keel adjacent to the keel anodes was perfectly clean. Capac readings have been consistently 1.20 volts for the two years she's been wet. I'm very pleased and the haul out brought much peace of mind. At this point, I'm ready to feel good about the effort and expense we expended to get the bottom in good condition.
Thanks for the update. I plan to redo my bottom this spring if $$'s permit. If the thru hulls are isolated properly, do you really see a need to remove them? Or can you just paint over them with the barrier coatings?
If you would like, you could put one coat of primer now, and down the road when you are ready to apply the anti-foul you just apply a thin coat of epoxy (known as a tack coat) wait till it is soft to finger pressure but tack free, then roll on your first coat of AF. Now if the primer is all the way cured you can sand with 80 grit paper to a mat finish creating an anchor profile, but The best adhesion occurs with a tack coat
There are antifouling coatings that are highly effective and great for aluminum that have no maximum dry to launch time. Practical sailor tested a lot of products and E Paint Company got an excellent rating
Some paint mfr's want you to launch within a narrow window but others say you can wait much longer, or that it doesn't matter. When in doubt, ask the mfr. Timing is important, regardless of paint brand, for bare aluminum oxidizes, quickly generating a protective coat that will resist paint (paint won't stick well). On application...My research indicates that the only safe way to coat aluminum is when it was JUST sandblasted. Wait over night and it's oxidized. Since my boat will probably have to wait for me after it's blasted, I intend to power sand the entire (ugh!) surface with an 80 grit disk (lots of them). I will then apply the first coat of epoxy barrier coat within an hour. (I plan to sand a ten foot area on one side, then sand the other side as the "Admiral" lays on the coating. We'll then switch sides and keep going. That's the plan, at least.) The epoxy manufacturer states that it can be 2nd coated until it's no longer tacky. Ditto for E Paint. But let any coat of either go fully cured/ dried, then it has to be sanded to eliminate the "amine blush" (epoxy) or gloss (E Paint) before continuing. Since I don't want to even THINK of doing all that, it's gonna be a long day! And it better be a warm, dry one too.
Just to let you know, you do not have to sand in between coats of the of completely cured E Paint (for Solvent-based E Paint EPZO). You should use a "tack coat" (when primer is soft to finger pressure but tack free apply first coat of E Paint). Let that coat cure completely and apply second coat; let that cure completely then the third coat. Let that cure then add your extra coat on the waterline and other high flow areas. Now If you are applying (Water Based E Paint EP2000) you need to let the primer cure all the way, and then sand to a mat finish first.
I'd worry about air borne contamination if I let the E-Paint dry hard before re-coating. I don't intend to let it harden, though it's gonna be a loooong day, brother, and I'll have to pick that day (weather-wise) very carefully.
Applying AF "When the epoxy primer is Soft to finger pressure but Tack free" I have found to be a better procedure when it comes to applying the first coat of AF. This will minimize the "smudging together" of the two products. You want a chemical bond between the two, but not necessarily a blend. As far as the E Paint goes you want to let each coat cure completely before you put another layer on. Other wise solvent entrapment can occur and possibly effect adhesion.
I'll use your method. Nothing like talking to someone who has actually done it, in the Real World
Could it be EPA curtailed what they could & couldn’t put in the paints to the point that it doesn’t matter what brand name paint we purchase, the paints will not adhere properly? If I have to repaint the entire bottom every year (because it ablates away) then I'll be using the cheapest paint I can find. E-Paint cost me over $170 a gallon, plus UPS red label shipping costs (another 35 bucks). "Ablative," or "self-polishing co-polymers" means the paint wears away, either by the physical action of water flowing past the hull, or chemically, by bonding with the water and slowly dissolving. Both have the advantage that, when it is time to renew the bottom paint, most of it is gone, greatly reducing the preparation work. The surface is continually "new," with fresh antifouling agents exposed to the water. So-called "leaching" paints maintain their function by the antifouling agents migrating to the surface, where it slowly leaches out. This type of paint is further categorized as being "hard," "semi-hard," or "soft." When the active ingredients are gone the paint loses its effectiveness and must be replaced. You can then either paint over the old paint, after prepping it with a light sanding or get down to the nasty business of removing it, either abrasively, with a grinder or a sandblaster, or chemically, using paint remover. Antifouling paints produced by E-Paint are used by the U.S. Navy and Coast Guard. They don't use either tin or copper. Their line of paint uses a patented formulation that releases hydrogen peroxide to restrain fouling, with additional biocides in some of the formulations. The biocides used are zinc pyrithion, just as is used in dandruff shampoos, and Sea-Nine 211, a biocide with a half-life measured in hours. Tin-free, it is perfect for aluminum boats, and their SN-21 is the paint used on the Coast Guard's 47- and 41-foot boats. EP-21 is formulated for aluminum boats, and SN-21, formerly only available for the Navy and the Coast Guard, is now available for commercial vessels. For most yachts E-Paint recommends EP-ZO, an ablative paint that has a longer life, 12 to 18 months, than EP-21, with an 8- to 10-month lifetime. The release of hydrogen peroxide is caused by a photoactive ingredient, so an extra coat needs to be applied near the waterline, where the light is more intense. (So that’s what happened to my exposed hull paint!) The hydrogen peroxide, once released from the paint, almost immediately breaks down into water and oxygen. Interlux, owned by Dutch conglomerate Akzo-Nobel, has an extensive line of paints. For aluminum boats they offer Trilux 33, which uses copper thiocyanate, a copper molecule that is "built" to be close to aluminum on the galvanic scale. With proper priming it is a suitable replacement for tin-based antifouling on aluminum boats. Trilux 33 will replace Micron 33 and Trilux with Biolux, both of which contain TBT. The amine blush definitely prevents adhesion - I know the West System epoxy tech manual makes a point of telling you to remove it with water and a Scotchbright pad. Trilux also feels dry after an hour or two, but the overcoat time is still 12hr minimum. Interlux tech support states that failure to follow drying times is one of the largest reasons for their paint not sticking so I followed it very carefully. What kind of antifouling paint are we talking about? If it's the stuff with Copper (cuprous oxide) in it, you bet it'll cause corrosion. The copper in the anti-fouling will react with the aluminum hull. The Trilux product that works for us Marinette folks is 33, made specifically for aluminum -- it contains only a derivative of copper, not copper itself. Or there's E-Paint's EZ-ZO - no copper, either My question was whether the original Trilux used an epoxy or any special polymers to help hold the tributyl tin (TBT)compounds in the paint film. The navy patents identify the methacrylate polymer system for slowing down the loss of TBT so the anti-fouling properties will last at least 5 years. I think the Coast Guard still uses the TBT anti-fouling paints for their aluminum cruisers. I am not going to break any laws, but I definitely want to research what is the best paint to use so the antifouling properties last the longest. This is a paragraph in the Interlux painting booklet: Aluminum Compatibility: Aluminum reacts with antifouling paints that contain cuprous-oxide causing serious corrosion. Therefore antifoulings containing metallic copper or cuprous oxide should never be used on aluminum. Antifoulings paints that contain cuprous thiocyanate can be used if the aluminum is primed properly. (Not any more now.) Also on the longevity of the anti-foul I’ve read on this site that the boats that are kept in the water year around get several years out of the bottom paints with just a scrubbing the secret is keeping it wet. It’s us guys in the deep freeze areas that must paint yearly. May be some of the Captains from down in the tropical climates can verify or disclaim this ??
Unzinced ships sink at slips.
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