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Bushings and Props Threads from the old forum
marinettejoe
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2008 8:52:14 AM(UTC)
marinettejoe

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ON REPLACING THE RUDDER POST BUSHINGS:
If you have gotten that brass collar off, and the rudder posts still won't drop down, they’re corroded between the shaft bushings. There's an inch or so of naked shaft between the top and bottom bushing that's gotta be ugly corroded. You might try using an acetylene torch on the rudder shaft; heat it cherry red to burn out the rubber of the bushings. The shaft should then drop out.
The rudders are out! It only took about a half hour of blowtorch work and half a can of PB Blaster per rudder. I heated up the flanges that were corroded on, and then quenched them with the penetrating oil--twice per side. I then beat the shafts out with a wood block and a hammer. Once the corroded part was past the flange they dropped right out with just a little coaxing.
Found that have some sort of packingless flanges. There is no packing other then a bit of some kind of marine grade plumber’s putty. The water-tightness comes from the close tolerances of the flanges and tightening nuts to the shafts.
Here is how everything was put together: The shaft comes up through the cutlass bearing; above that is the brass flange that has the lip on it for the rubber tube to clamp onto; next come a locking nut, then the tightening nut. The nut has a bevel that fits into a bevel on the flange. The locking nut is tightened to hold it in place and a brass collar, with a setscrew, goes on the shaft right over the top of the nut. (The setscrew goes into a dimple machined into the shaft.) The packing is what looks to be some sort of leather and cloth "composite" with plumber’s putty stuff gooped on. (Note: Most rudders have a plastic stuffing box with a ring or two of packing.) I couldn’t believe the amount of corrosion on the shafts, which will have to be replaced. I’m just glad i got them out without any major surgery!

Just finished scrubbing clean everything from the rudder removal surgery over the weekend. My rudder packing assemblies look exactly like prop shaft assemblies except that’s only one layer of packing material. Don’t think there’s room for any more then one, for the packing nut looks shallower than the prop shaft packing gland nuts.
You could probably stick one ring of Teflon packing in there and tighten 'er up really good. Unlike the prop shaft, you can tighten the rudder packing very tight since the rudder turns extremely slowly and is unlikely to seize.
I used a modified lather chisel for getting the bushing out (after slicing it with a saber saw), then a long shank drum sander to clean up the hole. I kept checking the hole, using a homemade gage made from large washers, to determine if the hole was clean enough for the new bushing. Excess sanding here would make the bushing loose in the hole—not good!
How snug a fit is it actually? (Very tight.) Did you bevel the bushing, or did it come that way? (I beveled it.) Also, I also noticed your bushing was level with the top of the tube. Mine seems to be recessed about two inches or so into the tube. Normal? (No!)
Would I need to fill the entire tube with bushing material, or is a "gap" ok to have? (The bushing—assuming there are two pieces, should be flush at each end of the tube.)
My rudder shaft had a pretty good bend in it--something must have been struck fairly hard. I’m wondering if that’s the reason it was hauled out to begin with? The rudder post corrosion is pretty bad, especially on the bent one, with some severe pitting about an inch above the rudder blade.
On my '85, there's a 2 inch long bushing at the top and at the bottom of the tube. That's a good setup (from an engineering standpoint). I would recommend you do the same. John A. sells bushings that are 4 inches long. Cut them in half with a table saw and chamfer the edges to ease installation.
Helped w/ the removal of rudder bushings from 1976 37' sedan. These were original and a major pain in the butt to get out. We used a bottle jack from under the boat w/ a custom solid cylinder to push the old bushings out. I could not believe my eyes: a 37' of Marinette lifting up w/ a bottle jack! Ended up beating a screwdriver (the handle eventually fell off) up in between the bushing the tube to break it loose. They were single bushings kind of like a hard but brittle plastic. I can’t remember the exact material. Both are out and the new ones are in the freezer overnight to shrink and will be installed tomorrow morning. The rudder posts look great, hope everything slides back together.

Question: Why did they need to be replaced? Leaking?

Answer # 1: Sloppy rudder motion.
Answer # 2: It sealed ok at rest but leaked under way. I think there is more pressure at gland when under power. Vibration could also be a factor under power. Not sure if seals are below or above water line.

ON JACKING THE BOAT UP TO REMOVE THE BUSHINGS:
Note: The boat has to be at least 35 inches above the ground at the rudders to drop the rudders out the bottom.
I too lifted my 32' Marinette with nothing but a two ton bottle jack for the truck to back under. It only took about 20 minutes to get everything set up and the truck out from under her. It was tough getting her up that high--three points of lift, one at a time, bow-port stern-starboard stern. It would have been much easier with three well-placed bottle jacks all at once
ON DIGGING THE OLD BUSHINGS OUT:
It was much easier when I used a rounded lathe tool and a hammer to chisel out the remaining bits of bushing. The old port shaft bushing was especially stubborn and my drum sander setup got a workout. I made up a Go-No Go gage (using a set of flat washers) to determine if enough of the old bushing had been removed, so the new one would not jam in place (which meant IT would have had to be chopped out). The new bushings weres then pulled into place with a long threaded rod, using a metal plate on each end to pull the bushing into place. The rudders and linkage then went back in, followed by a "front end" alignment on the rudders, giving them 1/8 inch of Toe In (which may be backwards. Some new info says the rudders should toe out in front 1/8 inch.)
Note: The rudder post bushings on a 32 Sedan of 1985 vintage are split--two separate bearings per shaft—vs. the older design with one solid bushing.
The rudder shafts are 1 inch and they resemble the prop shaft bushings. Those that plastic stuffing box is usually above the water line. Since the rudders turn very slowly, I tightened the box a lot more than the prop shafts and it has yet to leak.
This boat has S.S. shafts but carbon steel rudders that need attention yearly. Go figure! If I have to pull the rudders I’ll surely replace the blades with S.S.

ON REPLACING PROPELLER SHAFT BUSHINGS:

On some of the older boats (60s and 70s depending on the model) the rudder shaft tube is only 5" to 6" long. (On newer boats it is longer). On the boats with the short tubes, leave the bearing uncut (4" long) and installing from the bottom. The newer boats use a 6 inches long bushing.

A dry wall screw and a pair of Vice-Grips works better (in removing packing) than the packing extractor and costs a lot less. This was a tip I picked up off the Catalina 30 forum when I had my sailboat.

On replacing the port bushing (32 footer) I had a devil of a time scraping, sanding and cursing the old bushing, which been epoxied in place. I began by carefully slicing the bushing into radial pieces with a Sawz-All, using a long blade that went all the way through the bushing. (The individual pieces of bushing are less difficult to remove this way.) With the old bushing removed, I used another Go-No Go gage to see if enough had been removed so the new bushing would not jam in place (which meant IT would have had to be chopped out of there). The new bushing was then pulled into place with a long threaded rod, using a metal plate on each end to pull the bushing into place. I also epoxied in it, as well as adding new, ¼ “ set screws.
Unzinced ships sink at slips. yep
1 user thanked marinettejoe for this useful post.
Bill_2 on 4/8/2012(UTC)
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mark
#2 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 12:56:05 AM(UTC)
mark

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what kind of puller do i need to get the couplings off and do i need a slide hammer to pull the shafts after couplings removed

mark
fastjeff
#3 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 3:30:12 AM(UTC)
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Long as the shafts are CLEAN, you can rotate and tug on them and they'll come right out. I wire brushed mine first--that's the trick.

You'll need a strong, custom designed puller to get the couplings off. I have a loaner if you're interested. Just pay postage to and fro.

Jeff

PS: There's a photo of the puller on the ERepair Web site: http://fastjeff.tripod.com/
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Roger2
#4 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 6:19:28 AM(UTC)
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Jeff, How many shaft anodes do you use on each shaft? My shafts are 1 3/8 with 19 X 21 props and presently have 2 ea. I just got 1 ea. for replacement, what do you think? Should I order 2 more?

Roger
Sea Jay
1983 37 double cabin, twin 230hp Volvo diesels, twin disk 1.5-1 20X 23 4 blade props
fastjeff
#5 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 7:26:16 AM(UTC)
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Two sounds good to me. Better safe than..you know.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

mark
#6 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 9:16:10 AM(UTC)
mark

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jeff i might take you up on that puller ,im going up to the boat next week and get a handle on what all i have to do ill know better after i get started thanks for the help

mark
old32
#7 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 9:31:19 AM(UTC)
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jeff and mark ,jeffs puller is most likely for a 4" hub that big 41' may have a bigger hub.



tim
72 32' express
"http://www.theboaters.com/boats/Powerboat_Express_Cruiser_marinette_1972_anticipation"
fastjeff
#8 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 10:32:40 AM(UTC)
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..."jeffs puller is most likely for a 4" hub that big 41' may have a bigger hub."

Correct. Better measure the OD of the coupling on your boat trip.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

bpboater
#9 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 12:41:59 PM(UTC)
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Mark,

If the boat has never been in salt water, you might try to pull the shafts without taking the coupling loose from the transmission. Remove the set screws or lock bolts from the coupler and spray it generously with PB blaster. Remove the props and use a shaft slammer to gently tap the shafts. The vibration from the shaft slammer will help the PB blaster to penetrate around the shaft. Be gentle so you don't damage the rear bearings in the transmission. If they come out, great. If not, then use a collar puller to get the coupler off.

If you are working at Washington Marine, they might do the job for you. Or, if Tom Tucker is still working next at Captain's Cove down the street, he is really good.

Paul
paulsagel
fastjeff
#10 Posted : Friday, March 20, 2009 10:29:20 PM(UTC)
fastjeff

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If the shafts come out using that method, after being in there for years, I advise you to RUN to the nearest location where you can buy a fistful of lottery tickets!

Jeff (the glass is not only half empty, it's leaking!)
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

bpboater
#11 Posted : Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:54:47 AM(UTC)
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Mark,
Give it a try. I have pulled shafts from a 32 Marinette in the water using this method. The shafts had been in there 17 years. I used a 5 inch section of old shaft as a follower to put in the stuffing box until the new shaft was installed.

I think Jeff's experiences are for severely rusted couplers - see the pictures on his site. On my 41, there is zero rust on the couplers after 20 years. Just the difference between fresh and salt water exposure.

Paul
paulsagel
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