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Looking for solutions to the rear deck wood going bad...Need ideas.
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dequity
#1 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2009 12:24:10 AM(UTC)
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Seems like every few years I find myself replacing the only external wood on the boat. I have a 37 express. I use the treated marine grade lumber. But it still goes bad.


I found this suff called start board. IT'S GREAT! But I didn't have enough to finish the entire rear area. So now I'm back in the same boat. About to replace yet another area on the rear deck.

Question. Anyone bought a sheet of aluminum and cut it to size? What thickness did you use? Did it viberate? Was it too slick?

What about various epoxies and such- any of them work?

This will be next months project- Looking for ideas.
37' Sedan Twin Cat 3208s!
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jsimanella
#2 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2009 2:26:45 AM(UTC)
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What are you covering the plywood with, after you install it?

John
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1987 32 Sedan Bridge
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GB49
#3 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2009 4:35:01 AM(UTC)
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I think if the wood is treated properly it will last quite a while.
My 86 cockpit finally rotted. We replaced it w/ marine ply, coated w/ phenolic resin and painted w/ that marine topside paint. Then covered with vinyl. I suspect it will last longer than 20 years.

Perhaps someone can back me up on this but I believe the only difference between marine ply and commercial/residential ply is the lack of voids in the ply's. I think the glues may be the same.

IMO, preparation is 98% of the work.

-Karl

1986, 32' Sedan, twin 360ci, 275hp Chrysler's w/ K&N flame arrestors
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yooper
#4 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2009 4:48:19 AM(UTC)
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I cut mine out of external plywood and had the pieces sprayed at a Rhinoliner dealer for $150. If I had it to do over I would use MDO (Highway Signboard). Mine Warped. I think it will be OK once I pin it down. Nothing is getting through the Rhinoliner.

I did find a place to get reasonalbly priced diamond plate aluminum and "L" shaped framing pieces near my hunting camp. Baumans Surplus in La Vale Maryland. That's what I will use on my other project boat. They also had foam and covering for a new V-berth.

True external plywood and marine plywood use the same glue with which holds up good to soaking. Marine plywood is voidless so you can bend it around boat framing. You don't need that for a deck but there is so much crappy plywood now it might be better. Mine Looked like it was made out of wet firewood. CDX plywood is only designed for a few soakings before it must be covered up - stay away. 5/8" plywood is rare now because they use 5/8" OSB for roofing instead of plywood. I had to order mine and could not cherry pick.
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jralbert
#5 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2009 5:53:06 AM(UTC)
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dequity wrote:
Seems like every few years I find myself replacing the only external wood on the boat. I have a 37 express. I use the treated marine grade lumber. But it still goes bad.I found this stuff called start board. IT'S GREAT! .
Deq: something is obviously wrong with either the quality of the wood or the way it is covered or allowed to drain. As an example, several years ago, I buried some thin plywood in the garden to allow it to decompose and enrich the soil. The other day, I uncovered it. It was getting ratty for sure but it has not decomposed even though it was constantly moist. It had a pretty good amount of stiffness.

If you use an outdoor rated plywood, seal it well, especially the edges, using an epoxy paint or similar two-part stuff. You can paint the top (throw in some non-slip stuff such as fine sand) or cover it with vinyl such as Nautolex. Other choices include my favorite Plasteak which is not cheap but it will last forever and can easily be worked and shaped. Good luck (PS: I think you were referring to starboard, not start board. If so, that stuff is also indestructible, but expensive.
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
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old32
#6 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2009 7:36:53 AM(UTC)
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i'm starting mine tommorrow ,brought home the wood from the very back today to use as a template.useing 3/4 starboard (<300 a sheet)and am planning to route down the edge to 5/8 .hope to get the aft down and the rear seat in next monday while on vacation .aren't boats great you have to work on then during vacation?
WARNING THE STUFF IS HEAVY.


tim
72 32' express
"http://www.theboaters.com/boats/Powerboat_Express_Cruiser_marinette_1972_anticipation"
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jralbert
#7 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2009 2:07:36 PM(UTC)
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But you will never have to re-do that job. WHew - 300 smackers a sheet!
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
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fastjeff
#8 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2009 11:42:47 PM(UTC)
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I know this won't go over well with many of you, but we're going to lay 1/8 inch aluminum right over the present wood deck. The rotted wood areas will be first cut out and replaced (it's only rotted in a few places). I'll screw the aluminum down to the frames from above using countersink holes, and into the wood as well. Had to do this type of temporary repair last year, in the center of the deck, and it worked well. Now, I'll do the entire deck. The wood below will provide the rigidity needed for the 1/8 inch aluminum.

I can get surplus aluminum sheets locally for about $150 to do the whole job (with some left over. Cardboard templates will be used to cut the sheets out, with final trimming on site. I'll etch and paint the aluminum at home--easier that way--and touch it up at the boat. The wife wants Plasteak to go on the aluminum. but that'll have to wait 'til next year.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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dequity
#9 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2009 12:14:41 AM(UTC)
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Fastjeff wrote:
I know this won't go over well with many of you, but we're going to lay 1/8 inch aluminum right over the present wood deck. The rotted wood areas will be first cut out and replaced (it's only rotted in a few places). I'll screw the aluminum down to the frames from above using countersink holes, and into the wood as well. Had to do this type of temporary repair last year, in the center of the deck, and it worked well. Now, I'll do the entire deck. The wood below will provide the rigidity needed for the 1/8 inch aluminum.

I can get surplus aluminum sheets locally for about $150 to do the whole job (with some left over. Cardboard templates will be used to cut the sheets out, with final trimming on site. I'll etch and paint the aluminum at home--easier that way--and touch it up at the boat. The wife wants Plasteak to go on the aluminum. but that'll have to wait 'til next year.

Jeff


I like this idea. Can you upload pictures?
37' Sedan Twin Cat 3208s!
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yooper
#11 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2009 3:57:52 AM(UTC)
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Jeff,

The older I get the less I like to wrench myself under a deck. I got the Rhinoliner wood decks ready to install in my project 32'. My project 28' decks don't need replacing yet but there is a few soft spots. Your approach will allow us to work from the top down. That is a big thing for the sore back crowd. You may have a problem refitting the aluminum base molding. You will need new holes at least. Be nice if we could find some sort of waterproof rubber welting to replace it. Take plenty of pictures. How about trying for a more water tight hatch. Maybe an extra 1" of aluminum flap around three sides of the hatch cover.

I cut my first pattern for the back transom curve out of card board and then made and fit a full pattern out of luan. You only need one side. It flips for the other. If I had it to do all over again I would make a pattern out of harder 1/4" stock. I got a brand new router now and a good template and the right bit would allow me to rout out the decks in no time.
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jralbert
#10 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2009 4:40:31 AM(UTC)
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Fastjeff wrote:
I know this won't go over well with many of you, but we're going to lay 1/8 inch aluminum right over the present wood deck. The wife wants Plasteak to go on the aluminum. but that'll have to wait 'til next year.Jeff
Jeff: Consider this as a pocketbook item. From a self-confessed Plasteak and Millie fan; consider holding off on the aluminum as durable and relatively inexpensive as it is.

The Plasteak folks also stock a thin plastic underlayment that you could lay down this season which means, I think, no extra support would be needed for the Plasteak. You should be able to drop it on top of the wood and let the rotted sections alone if you wish. Of course, it will end up a little thicker than plain wood but the edges could be trimmed down with a router. You could add the good-looking plasteak topping when you are ready.

The advantage of this is that it'll be easier to cut extra hatches into plastic than aluminum as one of our other forum denizens (Norm?) did in the project pictured earlier on the forum.

Just a thought
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
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fastjeff
#12 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2009 7:25:41 AM(UTC)
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Joel:

As I understand Plasteak, it has no structure value--it's durable and looks great, but it's not structural. So when thew wood rots away, me and the Plasteak would end up in the bilge!

Jeff

PS: Thanks for the nice comment on my Admiral.
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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Docsnow
#14 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2009 9:21:35 AM(UTC)
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Joel,

"The advantage of this is that it'll be easier to cut extra hatches into plastic than aluminum as one of our other forum denizens (Norm?) did in the project pictured earlier on the forum."

only guys with Jeff's ready $$$$$$ can afford AL decking I never used AL for decking only to extend the swim platform Think

Norm,

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 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
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fastjeff
#15 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2009 9:57:00 AM(UTC)
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What I've really got, Norm, is a Pensylvania Dutch run scrap yard that sells all kinds of metal at cut rate prices (and even help you load it). Nice people to deal with.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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jralbert
#13 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2009 3:09:37 PM(UTC)
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Fastjeff wrote:
Joel:As I understand Plasteak, it has no structure value--it's durable and looks great, but it's not structural. So when thew wood rots away, me and the Plasteak would end up in the bilge! PS: Thanks for the nice comment on my Admiral.
Not so sure. I used it (and the plastic underlayment) to replace the bow pulpit 7 or 8 yrs ago and I recall it was fairly stiff but not wooden stiff. With the underlayment, it won't budge. And when Norm runs out of beer, it'll still be going strong.
BTW, you, we tolerate. The Admiral, we adore.
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
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Docsnow
#16 Posted : Monday, April 13, 2009 4:45:40 PM(UTC)
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Joel,

"when Norm runs out of beer, it'll still be going strong."

Now that pulpit gunna last a loooong looong time Applause

Norm,
BigBigMs Live On Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

http://www.PictureTrail..../index.php?clubID=20726 this one for the Pix club


 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
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dougrose
#17 Posted : Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:18:06 AM(UTC)
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The big advantage of wood, besides being available at any lumber yard, is that it is lightweight. Most substitutes (starboard, etc.) are a lot heavier.

I have had reasonable luck using marine grade ply (available anywhere in FL) protected with WEST brand epoxy. Putting a single 6 oz. glass cloth, soaked in epoxy, on the upper surface makes it pretty indestructable and gives a nice finish.

Polyester resins are not waterproof, and do not protect as well as epoxy.

It is best to have all the panels in a boat removeable, you need to be able to get anywhere. I say this with authority: the previous owner installed a beautiful but permanent glass/foam sandwich in my cockpit, and I have to cut a hatch every time I need access...


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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dequity
#18 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:49:53 AM(UTC)
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Seems that I have discovered my issue... I did not coat the wood. Laid carpet instead...d'oh!

Anyone know where I can buy another sheet of 3/4 starboard near Louisville?
37' Sedan Twin Cat 3208s!
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dougrose
#19 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 1:13:16 AM(UTC)
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I have had good luck using WEST epoxy to fix soft spots in plywood.

Drill 1/8" holes every half inch or so where the wood is soft. Put a lightbulb underneath to dry the wood. When completely dry, put duct tape underneath to cover the holes. Mix epoxy and thin by 10% with lacquer thinner. Pour the epoxy into the holes, adding more as it soaks up. All done.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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fastjeff
#20 Posted : Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:40:28 AM(UTC)
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Slick idea, Doug! Much easier than cutting the rotted wood out, thats for sure.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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