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Repowering with crusader 350's?
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paulcap
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2008 2:01:59 PM(UTC)
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I have a 1965 31' with ford 289's that have been upgraded to 302's. It gets about 1.6 mpg at 2100 rpm. The boat weighs about 8500 to 9000 Lbs. If we put EFI crusader 350's in, how will it change our milage? Will the milage get worse?
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fastjeff
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:26:24 PM(UTC)
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I'll bet my dinkboat that--if propped properly--it would get better gas mileage. And that includes carb-equipped 350s.

Jeff

PS: EFI usually requires some kind of fuel return line. How do you plan to arrange that?
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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NightMoves
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:51:01 PM(UTC)
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The price of new engines will never pay for itself in gas.

Mike
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Docsnow
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:32:16 AM(UTC)
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Mike,

Yes, one may not get his $$$ back in fuel economy but than he’d have some worry free boating & not spend the boating season with his A$$ down in the engine room. Plus he could post pix of a neat clean engine room like Joe’s Applause in my opinion the envy on this BigM site as far as engine rooms go. If any one thinks they'll get back what they've invested in these BigMs U are in for a big surprise Shame on you AnyWho have a great one Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

http://www.PictureTrail..../index.php?clubID=20726 this one for the Pix club


 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
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NightMoves
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:12:59 AM(UTC)
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I agree with you , but I think I would rebuild what I have. It would be a lot less complated and still would look nice, but not as nice as spanking brand new shinny motors but CHEAPER (Jeff)

Mike
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fastjeff
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2008 2:58:19 AM(UTC)
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I'm with Mike. Get a couple of rebuilt long blocks from a responsible source and you'll be in good shape.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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dougrose
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2008 3:07:46 AM(UTC)
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Upgrading from 302 to 350 will increase your torque by 16%, excluding any torque increase caused by better fuel control with the EFI or higher compression ratio.

Increasing your prop from 14" to 15" will increase the prop area from PI(7^2-1^2) or 151 in^2 to PI(7.5^2-1**2) or 174 in^2, or about 15%, which is probably about right. PI is 3.14 of course and "^" indicates an exponent.

It is possible that with the larger engines the prop could also be pitched out an inch or so, but I wouldn't do it until after WOT trials.

A good prop guy can add an inch in diameter if the prop is sturdy, and that along with a prop tune might be all that you would need. New props will be $1000-$1200.

I have found Vicprop (http://www.vicprop.com/) to be especially helpful, although there is no $ help in buying from Canada anymore, thanks Mr. Bush.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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fastjeff
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2008 5:13:32 AM(UTC)
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Over the years of doing web site blogging, and having read a zillon boat test reports, I've come to the conclusion that under-powered boats burn more gas than properly powered ones. Many a boat has had a 305 replaced by a 350, after which the delighted owner finds out the gas mileage is better. And those "thunder boats", some of them (at cruising speed!) get 4 to 6 mpg! They are, of course, NOT under-powered.

Jeff

"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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marinettejoe
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:46:18 AM(UTC)
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I am hoping I will love the new Crusaders I have... They are listed as Ultra Low emissions (not SULV though). We have discussed rebuilt diesels. It's the other stuff that kills ya. Cost effectively Rebuilds or Rebuild and EFI to convert would have been cheaper. The 37 really needed new engines and 360's are about maxed at that.
I do feel that underpowering a boat is the worst choice. yachtsurvey.com has some good info.

Best

One question that came up was Diesels vs Gas costs...
Unzinced ships sink at slips. yep
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paulcap
#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 09, 2008 12:59:23 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for your replies guys. My goal here is to have a halfway efficient boat & to keep my a$$ out of the engine room where it has been for about 7 years. Technology has come a long way since 1965 & since we plan to spend money, I think taking full advantage of "the latest" is what we plan to do. Still on the fence about Diesels, I'm a little worried about having too small of an engine compartment on this age boat to put the size diesels we need.
Do ya'll know of anyone who has powered with diesels on a boat as old as ours?
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dougrose
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:11:41 AM(UTC)
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There is an old geezer down in Florida who has a '75 32' flybridge sedan converted to diesel. He is working on a guide to diesel conversion - sort of a checklist - not only to help people to convert to diesel, but also to help them decide not to. We should have a topic on diesel conversion so members can look at it and do the right thing. The geezer needs to get back to it, and I will post it when I am done....


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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fastjeff
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:10:40 AM(UTC)
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Doug:

Somewhere in the threads on "Engines, Repowering" is a bunch of stuff on a diesel conversion, plus a bunch of pros and cons.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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marinettejoe
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:11:31 AM(UTC)
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I am against Diesel conversion.... Diesel is evil ... Gasoline is good.

Or I am I for it the other way around... Gas is evil Diesel is Good. Can never keep that straight.
Unzinced ships sink at slips. yep
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fastjeff
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:22:00 PM(UTC)
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I have no problem keeping the two straight: Gas engines are cheaper. Diesels are very expensive!

See?

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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paulcap
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:38:42 PM(UTC)
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That is the problem,, which way to go? Gas or Diesel. Both side are so inviting, it depends on how you feel that day...
On a 31 footer, what HP would the engines need to be if you were to go diesel? Probably about 200 HP each right? I would probably have to raise the engine room floor to accomadate them.

What do ya'll know about the Marine Power line? I found out that I can get two smack brand new EFI 350's for $7000.00 each for a right & a left engine. That is through Donavan Marine.
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fastjeff
#16 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:50:41 PM(UTC)
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Marine Power uses Chevies exclusively and has a good reputation EXCEPT with the big blocks: they had a water ingestion (common) problem with them, and it wasn't well resolved. I had a 315 hp 350, as did John Hall (two) and they ran great.

Jeff:

Note: EFI usually requires a return line to the fuel tank, so keep that in mind.
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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dougrose
#17 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2008 12:44:02 AM(UTC)
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You can get suitable diesels for $7000 each (check Boats & Harbors) but not new ones. You will also pay a lot to have them installed, unless you want to do the work yourself. Wiring and fuel systems will be different.

If you are considering new, or recent used, then http://www.boatingmag.co...id=3&article_id=426 has a quick overview of suitable diesels. The Steyr is far superior from an engineering point of view (ask FastJeff) but might not be well supported in your area. Also, the 50% drop in the value of the dollar in the last 7 years makes a European engine pretty expensive...


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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marinettejoe
#18 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2008 11:12:42 AM(UTC)
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New Gas engines are also a lot cleaner from an emissions standpoint. I am told the Station wagon effect is less and that long run out to the Potomac is improved by a better emissions profile.
Unzinced ships sink at slips. yep
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paulcap
#19 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2008 12:52:25 PM(UTC)
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I had never herd of the Steyre engine, but that sucker has some potential. It is small enough to fit in our little engine hole. I'm scared of the prices though. It has a lot of HP per lb. I'm going to research this a little more. Thanks for the tip. We happen to have a dealer pretty close.
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marinettejoe
#20 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2008 1:40:40 PM(UTC)
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Cummins new engines are smaller, high rev diesels. They will also fit.
Unzinced ships sink at slips. yep
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