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Marinette wiring
RiverRatt
#1 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2008 10:09:21 AM(UTC)
RiverRatt

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One of my next projects to do before installing rebuilt engines is to clean up some of the "patched together" 12V engine panel.
(For users that do not know I am a new Marinette owner and bought this boat in a non running condition)

I installed batteries to check to see what worked.
I know the starboard 12 Accessory switch is bad "it has a jumper to the battery". It seems to power all accessories up.
The port accessory switch did not do anything, it may be bad. (Have not jumped or checked with test light)
I have not reversed engineered the 12V electrical panel much yet.

My questions are

1- Does both Port and Starboard accessory switches go to power the same panel?
2- If the switches do not go to the power the same panel, what does port and starboard usually power?
3- What is a good replacement switch? Maybe a higher quality and higher current rating?

I am going to clean up the ground point. Install new battery cables to the battery switch and motors with 1 gauge wire. The old cables were 4 and 6 gauge wire.

Any suggestions???
Robert

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fastjeff
#2 Posted : Friday, January 11, 2008 10:36:09 PM(UTC)
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Rat:

That 'idiot panel' has confused more than just you and I! Over the years I've removed and relocated much of the stuff on there--not that I can answer your question (which side goes where? It'd take an Einstein to figure that mess out.)

The other problemS (plural) with that panel is that, when climbing in and out of the bilge, it's very easy to brush against a switch, flipping it the wrong way (or snapping off the handle. Don't ask!) I screwed a 2 x 2 just above the panel after...ah-hem...to keep from doing that again. And we're talking serious stuff here: Bilge pumps switches, for example.

While on that subject, you'll note that there are way too many switches involved in running the bilge pumps. Let one of them be off at the wrong time and... Not good. I eliminated both forward and aft bilge pump switches from the idiot panel (by butt connecting the wires at each switch). All Marinette owners should do this! You still have the overhead breaker to protect your circuit.

Have fun!

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

pfhlaw
#3 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2008 2:35:14 AM(UTC)
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Robert:
Just remember that those switches are also the circuit breakers. It looks like someone has replaced one with an ordinary toggle switch. If so, that circuit may not be fused and could be a safety hazard. I found the same condition on my 1981 sedan bridge. I found replacement breaker/switches on ebay cheap.
Peter
1981 32' sedan bridge
twin Chrysler 360 cu. in. 250 hp engines
Raw water cooled
Nimbus II
Home port: New Buffalo, MI
Roger2
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2008 10:13:47 AM(UTC)
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Go to Doug Rose web page, he has a great set of prints that will be very helpful.

Roger
Sea Jay
1983 37 double cabin, twin 230hp Volvo diesels, twin disk 1.5-1 20X 23 4 blade props
DiverDennis
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 12, 2008 12:07:19 PM(UTC)
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Roger2 wrote:
Go to Doug Rose web page, he has a great set of prints that will be very helpful.


You're right. Doug has done an excellent job on it.

http://www.geocities.com/dougmrose/
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1975 28' Express, Single M360
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dougrose
#6 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2008 8:22:05 AM(UTC)
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Quick answers:

1- Does both Port and Starboard accessory switches go to power the same panel?

On my boat the accessory panel is divided into two sides for power purposes, with the port 9 switches powered by "Accessory 1" and the other 9 switches by "Accessory 2", as shown in the schematics of MY boat. The generic schematic is different, and may not match your boat (or any other as far as I know).

2- If the switches do not go to the power the same panel, what does port and starboard usually power?

Depends on your boat. It is probably like mine.

3- What is a good replacement switch? Maybe a higher quality and higher current rating?

The stock switches are 20 Amp WOOD ELECTRIC model 7649 112-220-101 which are no longer made, and are unreliable around salt water anyway. They were made for aircraft. The toggle version is very hard to find, the pushbutton versions are sold at DFW Airparts.

I use MS39019/01-257 breakers, which are sealed space-qualified units. I have a couple of buckets full, but few in 20 A. They are around $130 each at Newark.

They have cheaper SnaPak ones, also at Newark.com, their Newark Part Number: 90C0671. They have a 1/2" thread and a plastic toggle (in six colors!), along with 1/4" blades for push-on connectors. Price is around $15. Note that the push-ons are limited to AWG 14 wire, usually. The ABYC allows 35 A in 14 wire.

Consider buying a new panel with modern breakers.



1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
RiverRatt
#7 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2008 11:24:51 PM(UTC)
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Thank you all for the information very helpful,

Doug

On your charging system, did you build your own diode banks or are they sets of battery isolators?

Thank you
Robert
"The is no dumb-ass vaccine" - Jimmy Buffet
dougrose
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:35:49 AM(UTC)
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I bought the diodes that I used at Skycraft Surplus in Orlando. They have a lot of stuff on their website but these 120-amp units w/ isolated mounting were in a bucket in a corner. They are designed for large arrays, and have two diodes inside each three-terminal package, as shown. I mounted 6 of them to a heatsink in the engine compartment, at a total cost of around $50 or so.

I was very proud of this setup, but since then battery combiners have come on the market, such as http://store.hamiltonmar...m/browse.cfm/4,6007.htm and http://store.hamiltonmar.../browse.cfm/4,10165.htm and I think they are better.

I make use of the voltage drop in my isolator to reduce the charging voltage for the sealed batteries so I don't have to get new alternators - this man changeth not what Perkins hath wrought. But the correct regulator would make more sense, and then the much simpler combiner circuit would work.

I haven't decided whether it is worth making my own combiners, or just (Gasp! Help me, Jeff) buying two for the boat. Either way the benefit is a much simpler circuit: http://www.geocities.com...ring_with_combiners.pdf


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
fastjeff
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:21:48 AM(UTC)
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After all the loot Santa brought you, why not buy three!

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

RiverRatt
#10 Posted : Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:52:40 PM(UTC)
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I wanted to add an update.

I replaced the breakers on my 12V engine panel. Replaced the paralleling relay with a automatic charging relay.

The charging relay in automatic mode connects at around 13.6V and disconnects 12.6V.

The relay can be manually closed or turned off. It also only used .2A to hold connection.
http://bluesea.com/categ...roductline/overview/389

Note: not all the wiring is complete
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RiverRatt attached the following image(s): DSCN0608.JPG
RiverRatt attached the following image(s): DSCN0619.JPG
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fastjeff
#11 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:10:01 AM(UTC)
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I hope the alternators don't go through that relay. One oif things you must avoid at all costs is switching the output of an alternator in run (hence the make before break contacts on the Perko battery switches).

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

RiverRatt
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:01:38 AM(UTC)
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Fastjeff wrote:
I hope the alternators don't go through that relay. One oif things you must avoid at all costs is switching the output of an alternator in run (hence the make before break contacts on the Perko battery switches).

Jeff


???? Dont understand what you mean?

It is connected before the main battery switch. The relay will combine battery banks. It should not disconect or connect an alternator from a battery.

Another question, the 30A starbord or port pannel main, is it hooked up the main switch or direct to the battery feed.

I connected the bilge directly to the battery thru a push to reset breaker.
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fastjeff
#13 Posted : Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:46:50 AM(UTC)
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Here's my point: The alternator's output is connected directly and permanently to the battery. This circuit must NEVER be opened then closed with the motor ruining or the diodes in the alternator will blow. I hope is not the case here, but I don't see how that relay of yours can operate without doing this.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

RiverRatt
#14 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:56:18 AM(UTC)
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Thanks, I understand now.

The only way an alternator would be disconnected form a battery is if someone would turn off teh Perko switch or my main alternator breaker blows.
See diagram in the following
http://bluesea.com/files...s/instructions/6693.pdf

One consern that I had is when the battery banks are combined having both alternator output fed in. After reading some mfg informaion it should not be a problem.
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fastjeff
#15 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:01:15 AM(UTC)
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..."One consern that I had is when the battery banks are combined having both alternator output fed in. After reading some mfg informaion it should not be a problem."

Mine are set up that way too. No problem.


Looking at the wiring diagram, I now see how the relay works--it's function is to prevent pulling down your main starting battery while current is drawn from the house batteries. Having a Perko switch set it to house bank only, while on the hook, accomplishes the same thing, but the relay does it automatically. Slick.

Jeff
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dougrose
#16 Posted : Thursday, March 26, 2009 10:51:02 AM(UTC)
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Very nice, this is just what I was talking about, the Blue Sea unit may be a bit more expensive than Hamilton Marine's. Just what I need, maybe next season.

I assume that those battery switches are explosion-proof, if not they should not be in the engine space.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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