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Temperature, Freeze paranoia
collins69s
#1 Posted : Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:15:09 PM(UTC)
collins69s

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So the forecast tonight where my 1972 '32 Express is located calls for a low around 30 deg. tonight/ tomorrow morning for about 3 hours or so. ( Marblehead , Ohio 43440). I am sure I am being paranoid, but the fact that it's gonna be that cold for a few hours bugs me. Just put her in the drink on Friday and the winterization fluids are passed .. Am I being a worry wart or a overly protective Alumi-daddy?
Thanks,
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
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jsimanella
#2 Posted : Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:30:27 PM(UTC)
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If you are in the water, I wouldn't worry about it. Only going to be at or near freezing for a couple of hours. My water system's been flushed, and I'm still in the driveway, but I'm not sweating. Popped a heater in there, just because I plan on hitting it early in the morning.
--
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MaxII
#3 Posted : Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:43:02 PM(UTC)
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Sean,
Typically, we don't worry about damage as long as the water is above freezing. Just a few hours of freezing temperature should do no damage.

Msx
cap'n Brent
#4 Posted : Tuesday, April 27, 2010 7:10:25 PM(UTC)
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no wories mate go down at 0330 take an ice cube place it on the top of your intake it will be turned into h2o by 0800 the water your in is warmer than a short blast of cool air
HP Chadwick bay Sunset Bay lake Erie NY boat name Sunrise 32' f/b fisherman chry 318 twin blue bastards,28'express singel 318
"It would be a labor of love, if I loved to labor" cpt Brent
jimski2
#5 Posted : Tuesday, April 27, 2010 9:38:46 PM(UTC)
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Water pipes usually do not start bursting from ice swelling untill 28 degrees is registered.
fastjeff
#6 Posted : Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:17:03 PM(UTC)
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It takes time and low temperature to freeze damage things. We had 32 last night as well and none of the water in pots, or the fish pond outside, shows ice.
any

Jeff
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collins69s
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:43:39 AM(UTC)
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That's what I figured. Thanks guys. Just out of curiosity about this thread, anybody ever use a thermostat in the engine compartment hooked up to a heater just to make sure it doesn't get too cool in there? Seems like a good idea in the fall or early spring when weather can be unpredictable.
Thanks,
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
fastjeff
#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 28, 2010 6:57:17 AM(UTC)
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For insurance reasons, most marinas object to any kind of electric heater 'down there'.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

BCassedy
#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 28, 2010 8:04:57 AM(UTC)
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Now this is gonna sound more "Rube Goldberg" than anything else, but what about a hair dryer, running on low heat/low fan with a small diameter (pick 'em up at Lowes) aluminum dryer vent pipe connected to the end (using aluminum heat duct tape). The other end would run into the wine cellar/engine compartment? Low heat supplied by the dryer shouldn't be a fire hazard, and it'd keep the lower section above freezing during the time that Sean's talking about (aka before it gets wintry cold). The hair dryer could be mounted such that it wouldn't lay on anything combustible and the "duct work" would direct the air flow where it's needed w/o fear of a fire hazard. Just a thot.

Bill
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
" Sunset Seeker "
1988 32' Fly Bridge
Twin 318 Cu In / 240HP Chrysler power plants
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collins69s
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 28, 2010 9:22:53 AM(UTC)
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I like where you are going with that Bill, but you would still have to be "down there" in order to turn it on. How about this: A high wattage light bulb, like an outdoor spotlight, in one of those aluminum industrial clamp lamps hooked up to one of those light timers that you use to fool the neighbors into thinking that you are home when you aren't. Just clamp it in the engine compartment, and set your light timer to go on at 2:00 A.M. and shut off at 6:00 A.M. That would probably put off enough heat to to keep the Ol' Girl warm, uh, "down there".. Yes?
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
dougrose
#11 Posted : Wednesday, April 28, 2010 9:58:07 AM(UTC)
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Under the brand name "goldenrod" you can buy small heat sticks that have no hot spots and are often used to take the damp out of things. A permanent install would be a lot less trouble than a clamp light.

Still, I don't think that it is very easy to heat the engine room with all that aluminum with water behind it. Perhaps it would make sense to put a block heater in each engine. This is pretty common on diesels.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
jimski2
#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:04:01 AM(UTC)
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On our 40 foot Coast Guard boats in Ketchikan we had electrically heated antifreeze systems that kept the 6-71 diesels heated to 160 degrees at all times. Easy starting, all warmed up so when the emergency calls came in, we were at full power in a few seconds. In Buffalo, NY on our tugboat in the winter we used to fill the sea chest and sea valves with oil to keep the pipes from bursting in the cold but today an air compressor supplies a small amount of air to keep the water out and no freeze burst under water pipes. Some boats today use a circulating water pump that flows water from the bottom upward to keep ice from forming around your boat. The water at its densest at the bottom is 39 degrees and this warmer water when pumped up is what does that trick. No cherry red coils that could ignite gasoline fumes, etc. were ever used.
collins69s
#13 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:35:34 AM(UTC)
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My budget is slightly smaller then the USCG's, so if I could make something work with a timer and a light or a small heater and some creative duct work, I would probably go in that direction. . I know they make pumps that circulate the bottom water, and I'm not sure about the price and would that keep the water in the blocks from freezing? Not sure.
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
jralbert
#14 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:16:16 PM(UTC)
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Frankly, I wouldn't count on a bubbler system to prevent block freeze damage. That would a fatal (to the engine) leap of logic. Bubblers (either an air bubble system or a de-icer such as ones made by Kasco using a propeller) do indeed bring the warmer water to the surface to prevent icing around the hull. The air temp inside the cabin and engine compartment is going to be much closer to the ambient air temp. So, on a 15 degree day, the water around the boat will be above freezing. That's nice. Your engine block would have cracked by then. Not nice.
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
fastjeff
#15 Posted : Thursday, April 29, 2010 10:57:13 PM(UTC)
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Agreed. Leaving water in the motors (even FWC setups have water elsewhere) is a big risk.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

BCassedy
#16 Posted : Friday, April 30, 2010 5:19:53 AM(UTC)
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Sean,

How about a marriage of ideas....
- Use the hairdryer / aluminum vent pipe process (maybe with some aluminum covered fiberglass insulation <to keep heat from being transferred to salon/galley area and delivering the maximum to the engine area.> The heat, rising naturally, would then dissapate back into the galley/salon area.).

- Use a timer to control on/off cycles. Having bought my wife several of these dryers (she likes to have it running <in a safe/secure location) in the bathroom to warm up the area when she's getting ready for work), you'd need a timer that would be 110v but rated for 20 amps. This would do that: http://www.electricsuppl....com/inaircoaptih1.html . The dryer will last about 4 months before it'll wear out. And at 15.00 each, not too bad.

Still a Rube Goldberg set up but should be relatively easy to break down when you want to take the boat out on a crisp (or colder) autumn day.

Bill
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
" Sunset Seeker "
1988 32' Fly Bridge
Twin 318 Cu In / 240HP Chrysler power plants
Raw water cooling
Freshwater boat
BCassedy
#17 Posted : Friday, April 30, 2010 5:23:03 AM(UTC)
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One consideration ... The circuit you plug the timer into should be of the same ampherage - 20amp. And the breakers should be reasonably new(ish). Old breakers don't always hold up to their initially rated loads.

Bill
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
" Sunset Seeker "
1988 32' Fly Bridge
Twin 318 Cu In / 240HP Chrysler power plants
Raw water cooling
Freshwater boat
collins69s
#18 Posted : Friday, April 30, 2010 5:42:23 AM(UTC)
collins69s

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I could be wrong, and usually I am, but I think a hair dryer shuts off automatically after being left on for a long time. How about the same idea but with a small ceramic heater? The ones that shut off if tipped over and put out a fair amount of heat and have an adjustable thermostat? I think they are about $30.00..
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
yooper
#19 Posted : Friday, April 30, 2010 7:09:33 AM(UTC)
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Has anyone on this forum ever put on aftermarket "Fresh Water Cooling". That is where the block is filled with conventional anti-freeze for those of you who are from Trenary. I am very paranoid about freezing. I already lost an engine to drunk yard guys.

I got a plug device as a gift which is designed to turn on a lamp when the temperature drops to a preset level. The idea is to warn a person watching your house while you are on vacation that your furnace went out. It didn't look heavy duty enough to run a heater. I dunno where it is now. Need one which will handle high amp draw.
tr_guy79
#20 Posted : Saturday, May 01, 2010 4:57:28 AM(UTC)
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Why not add an electric flow pump on the engines coolant line to the water heater? This would keep things from freezing by using the water heater's thermostat. You can also use this setup to cool the engines after a run, which would lower the cabin temps before hitting the sack for the night (for those with a sedan)
"McKenna Renee"
1972 '32 FB Express. Twin 318 / Edelbrock 1409s
Chesapeake City Md (Upper Bay / C&D Canal)
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