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IGNITION UPGRADES (Originally titled MSD Igntion & Tachs)
jsimanella
#21 Posted : Monday, August 30, 2010 1:10:49 PM(UTC)
jsimanella

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Is one of the engines reverse rotation?
--
1987 32 Sedan Bridge
Twin 360s, Rebuilt 2006
Modified/Original Electronic Ignition
Raw Water Cooled
Catawba Island, Ohio
tundrarules
#22 Posted : Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:25:03 AM(UTC)
tundrarules

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Ok my head is spinning. Are you guys a fan of the original electronic ignition system on the 318s (1985). I think most of you are refering to the old point type distibutors for unreliability.

I have the original electronic ignition. The only problem I have is they will not advance due to rusty springs etc. I have excersised rotors, but I have not checked advance with a timing gun (shame on me,....it's on my list before changing springs)

I think with a new spring kit and a new cap I should be good to go, what do you think?

Are the springs hard to change?

Where do you get springs? Here? http://inpcars.com/recurve-kits1/

Here http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQChryslerQQLeBaronQQMr_GasketQQContact_SpringQQ19771995QQG12925B.html?apwcid=P1135867996W43b3f85c7ab9e&apwidXx9nzB2

Looks like Mr. Gasket owns Mallory sooo.... I think this is the Mopar kit needed for spring rebuild...not sure
http://www.mr-gasket.com/ProductDetails.aspx?MajID=525&MinID=5282&productID=296&txtSearch=925b
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL


RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
collins69s
#23 Posted : Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:05:26 AM(UTC)
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Hey Tundra, the factory springs are different than the last two links you have. One spring is much heavier than the other, and both are heavier than the ones in those pics. Try Lakeland Auto and Marine, Port Clinton Ohio, or Hale Marine. Some of the ones in the first link looked like they could be right, but you'd have to buy all those ones you don't need. I paid 12.00 a pair for mine from Lakeland Auto And Marine. I had replace the rusty broken ones I had with the teeny Mr. Gasket ones before I found the right ones. It ran better with the Mr. G's than with no springs but not nearly as well as with the correct ones.
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
tundrarules
#24 Posted : Sunday, November 07, 2010 3:52:38 AM(UTC)
tundrarules

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Ignition 101 question

I have electronic ignition...is the advance timing done by ignition control unit or springs and weights in the distributor?

I see rusty springs down in my distributor Eh?






Pulled this off another site....good read

Quote:
Proper gasoline marine engine tuning will include varifying the advance curve. Adjustments are made accordingly.

Ignition Timing and Progressive Ignition Advance 101 was perhaps not taken during training!
Neither was anything studied re; cruiser type Gasoline Marine Engine Detonation potentials.

Without knowing your exact engine build (piston type/cylinder head chamber size/camshaft profile) I'll not make a suggestion. Too risky!

Ignition advance is based on crankshaft degrees beginning at TDC (top dead center) of any given cylinder.
However, we set/check timing on one cylinder only...... seems to always be # 1 (all others follow suit!)

BASE advance is just that! BASE!:
It is the spark lead that the engine fires up on, and idles on. Nothing more than that!
It is consistant at/in this low RPM range... it does not change once set, and the distributor is locked down.
(this would be for a mechanically advancing type distributor system)
The full electronic types do similar.... but may change BASE some during warm up.

Progressive Ignition Advane and Curve:
This is the spark lead in addition to BASE that occurs during and thoughout the RPM range until the limit is reached.
This is progressive and reaches a limit as to when it stops advancing and at an RPM in which this occurs.
This is the critical part of the Ignition system.
Since your engine is not OEM, there are no OEM specs that I can refer you to. Hence the need to know about the components used in this engine!

Maybe your engine builder can help you with this.
If so, he will/shoud be able to provide you with an advance curve.... but this must be suitable for a marine cruiser application..... NOT AUTO!
You distributor should be capable of giving you this curve/limit.
If not, it will need to be calibrated accordingly.

Don't let anyone foo foo you that the curve is not important..... it is particularly important that the cuve not be too agreesive for the 383 if dished pistons have been used, IMO.

Too little, and we leave performance on the table (no real foul here).
Too much, and we risk detonation (big foul).
It's that simple!

All else being good, of course!

Here are some examples ONLY.... Do Not use these!
NOTE: most all marine ignition advance curves DO NOT include BASE advance.
BASE must be added to TA when you calculate this.
Note the straight line curve.
Note the RPM at which it is Full IN!
Note that the Full In advance is approximately 22+ degrees.
Add a BASE of 8 degrees, and the TA (total advance) becomes 30 degrees.
Note that this 30 degrees occurs at about 3,300 RPM... pretty much above of the rpm for worst case detonation.... again, depending on the combustion chamber!


Just for fun, here is one that's completely wrong for marine use. (I don't know what engine this is for.... I just grabbed it from Google Images)

Note the very steep and agressive curve!
Note how high (in degrees) the davance is taken to the limit.
Note how early this reaches the upper level of advance.
Note that the curve begins at a low RPM (a good marine curve won't begin until around 1k rpm as to keep low speed RPM consistant).
Yours or my engine could never use a curve like this. We'd burn the tops right out of our pistons, and likely ruin a bunch of valves in the process, if we did use this.
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL


RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
fastjeff
#25 Posted : Sunday, November 07, 2010 10:19:08 AM(UTC)
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The rusty springs and etc are hiding just below that plate.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

tundrarules
#26 Posted : Wednesday, November 10, 2010 6:51:26 AM(UTC)
tundrarules

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FYI for those wanta be motor heads

You tube video of MSD distributor install. General videos....timing and vacuum advance not used for our application Think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a2X9mSSlQY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHX1yXVyIMg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjNS_PHTRog&feature=related

Man, that motor would look good in the BigM

I say we start BigM videos on youtube. Jeff, would you get us started...all you need is a digital video camera...go for it Applause
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL


RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
tundrarules
#27 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2011 3:34:49 AM(UTC)
tundrarules

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Guess what the bilge monkey found? Brick wall

Port engine

* 3 spark plug wires in the wrong place (wasn't me) on distributor.
* Broken advance springs
* Pickup module hitting reluctor

I can't even believe the engine would run....sounded fine but would never make full RPM.

Now I must decide to rebuild or go with new distributors. d'oh!

How much are advance springs?
New pickup module...$58 at Hurrikain.


Who knows!!d'oh!
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL


RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
collins69s
#28 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:14:51 AM(UTC)
collins69s

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Why do you need a new pick up module if it was running fine? You can back the pickup off for clearance.. My dist. shaft had a bend in it(bad) and the reluctor was hitting.. I trued it up with a dial indicator and all is great. And I didn't have to pull the distribs to do any of it. Springs are about $10.00. Make sure you get the right ones.. One real heavy and one not.
Sean
SIFF SURF
1972 32' FB Express
Twin 318s
tundrarules
#29 Posted : Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:54:21 AM(UTC)
tundrarules

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Pulled the trigger today Applause. After talking with Kenny a fellow Marinetter and site member, I decided to go with Pertronix distributors Applause My distributor shafts have a little play and everything is rusty etc. I do not like chasing gremlins so I did the easy thing d'oh! Give up the cash and do it right. Goodbye to another $500 Eh?

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/flame/dist/billet_marine.aspx#MarineESTDistributors


Here's an email Kenny sent to me (hope you don't mind Kenny, thanks for the help.)

Quote:
Hi Greg
I decided on a pertronix # D241801 distributor for the following reasons ;
Pertronix tech support knew their stuff and I had an excellent "engine conversation" Pertorinx says they sell them in pairs and get none back and no mods are needed for the counter rotating motor !
the product is not due to be end of life soon YLM is already EOL.
the distributor has roller bearings at the top , the mallory is only sleeve bearings.
the electronics are in the distributor and no ballast resistors are needed.
the distributor comes with springs, advance limit stops and an advance curve graph
the distributor best used with a flame thrower coil , I ordered the epoxy filled version 45 KV # 45111


Soon to be for sale...2 brand new rotor caps (screw down type), 2 rotors, 2 prescolite distributors (needs a little tlc) pm me if interested.






1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL


RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
tundrarules
#31 Posted : Wednesday, April 06, 2011 2:27:20 PM(UTC)
tundrarules

Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts

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Question of the day Think

Made up my custom plug wires a few weeks ago and am not sure I did it correctly. No directions included Think

Do you leave the metal winding around the core? Is that main current path or is core the main current path?

I stripped the metal winding away thinking it was a noise reduction winding d'oh!

Do you guys leave the winding on?


Pray
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL


RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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