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Hull corrosion
Doug41
#1 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 5:30:42 AM(UTC)
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I think I may have a problem with my hull. My forward sump pump has been kicking in about every 2 hours for 12-15 seconds and pumping what I figure to be about 8-10 gallons each time. I checked all my thru hulls and everything looks fine.

I looked down into the very bottom of the vee in my hull where it never really gets dry and found what appears to be some flaking of the inside of the aluminum. I reached under my shower sump and found a collection of about a dozen assorted nuts, bolts, and screws. I have no idea how they all got to one spot, but I am wondering if the flow of the water toward the bilge pump caused them to accumulate in that one spot. They look like things that could have fallen into the bilge during various projects over the past years. There were also some dark looking remnants of some sort of material that was sort of "crunchy." I have no idea what aluminum looks like when it corrodes and am wondering of that is what this material is. It feels as though I could pull away some of the flaking aluminum, but don't want to open any holes up more, if that is what they are.

My question is whether the boat is safe to have in the water at this time and what I ought to do?

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GB49
#2 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 5:58:44 AM(UTC)
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Doug,

I get some corrosion in the bilge where it never gets dry but it looks like mini popcorn stuck to the hull.
Perhaps the black crunchy stuff is over spray from the "pitch" that was sprayed at the factory as a noise/moisture barrier. The engine room most likely is coated with that stuff and then sprayed silver.
Another thing could be that the shower sump has been leaking over the years and Lord knows what has been growing as a result of that nasty water leaking in the bilge.

As for the forward bilge pump running at such a frequency I'd check all through hull fittings like you already did and then inspect the fresh water supply. I'm assuming you have a 41' by your handle. I don't know the routing of pluming on the 41' but I know there is a head and shower up front. Perhaps a fitting is leaking. Do you use the shore water hookup? If so you can turn that off and drain the system and see if the bilge pump still cycles. If your using the water tank you should hear the fresh water pump cycle if there is a leak in the system.

I would have to guess if you had a corrosion problem bad enough to rot through the hull and cause that much water to flow in, you would be seeing sever bubbling/blistering etc all around the boat.

What does your CAPAC meter show??
I'd inspect both ends of shore cord to make sure there is no damage to the plugs and then start inspecting your immediate dock neighbors.
Check for reverse polarity in shore power.
Check for voltage on the earth ground. If there is enough voltage on the earth ground your galvanic isolator will begin to buzz/hum.

I guess ultimately could have the boat pulled and inspect the underside.

-Karl
1986, 32' Sedan, twin 360ci, 275hp Chrysler's w/ K&N flame arrestors
Doug41
#3 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 7:34:47 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the response.

I have checked my fresh water supply and it is not that. I use only the tank and the fresh water pump is not going off unexpectedly. It is not my holding tank and it is not my overboard discharges. I'm pretty sure I have checked all sources other than through the hull.

I peeled some of the scale away from the bottom, but don't want to take too much fearing I might make things worse. I got under water with a set of goggles and everything looks good from the outside. My CAPAC reading is .75, which, while low, seems to be within the limits discussed on other places on this forum. My shore cords are brand new and my reverse polarity warning lights are not on. My shore cords have little red lights at the boat end that are on, but I think that is just to tell you they are plugged in.
collins69s
#4 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 7:45:36 AM(UTC)
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Couple of thoughts on this.. Some may seem pretty simple and no brainers but here goes.. Check your drain plug in the bow? Maybe it's loose or? The fridge drain line? Maybe it's draining into the bilge or your AC drain line? And just thought of this.. Are there any instances of condensation being an issue, with it being hot out side and our aluminum hulls being cool from the AC? Just crossed my mind.. Has anyone actually ever seen a Marinette where the hull was corroded through? I think it would take a very long time or an enormous blunder for that to happen..
Sean
SIFF SURF
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Twin 318s
old32
#5 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 8:10:05 AM(UTC)
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mine is doing something like that to .but i think most of it is from a rudder leak and the way it sits in the water the water runs to the front .

tim
72 32' express
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Docsnow
#6 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 8:17:37 AM(UTC)
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Doug 41,

Here’s a couple other places to check the drain plugs & the Vee along the keel but this will have to done after pullout which isn’t to far off sadly to say. Whistle After U have the hull power washed & let dry put water in bilge than go under and see if there are any wet spot. First place to check is around the drain plug. On the drain plugs the threads may be corroded, if water appears in that area take the proper size pipe tap (3/4" I believe ) run it down but don’t force it U’ll probably get some gunk out on tap than put some teflon tape the plug replace an go thru the same procedure.
If that isn’t it. Check along the keels V for hair line crack looking for moisture spots give the water a bit of time to work it's way around cause the pressure of a few gallons compared to the pressure of the vessel is quite different.Not knowing if U store your vessel inside heated storage or not. But water some how has a way of working it way down in the crevices of that V it may have split in the harsh winter freezes we have in MI. like a buddy of mine did a few years back. Hopefully it’s the drain plugs Anxious

Norm,

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bpboater
#7 Posted : Monday, August 02, 2010 10:12:48 AM(UTC)
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There are 3 through hull fittings that could leak quite a bit on a 41, if they are damaged: capac sensor, depth finder and speed/distance wheel. You can check them out from inside the engine room and wine cellar. If the water is accumulating in the forward bilge, it might be the water inlet for the forward head is cracked or leaking. The raw water inlet hose for the front head is routed to starboard and under the chest of drawers in the front stateroom. I have a 1988 DCMY. I think the hull is divided in front and rear halves so a leak in the rear of the boat cannot get to the front bilge - it keeps gasoline from floating into a non-spark free zone. So, you must have a leak up front? The other area that can leak is the air conditoner raw water pump and strainer.
Doug41
#8 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:58:45 AM(UTC)
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Again, thanks to everyone for the ideas. This forum is by far the most helpful and responsive of the several that I belong to.

I talked to my storage guy and he said he checks the hull for corrosion every year when he puts it away and has seen none on the outside, so he doesn't think it's corrosion.

I wondered what the bolt I noticed in the bow was all about. I didn't realize there was a drain plug up there. I will give that a closer inspection today. Is there also a drain plug in the rear of the boat?

I store inside unheated, so there may be some damage from freezing. Should I pour a couple of gallons of antifreeze in the bilge when I put it away?

I'm a little concerned about the comment that the front and rear bilges are separate. I have two bilge pumps in the rear and only one up front. I was taking some comfort in the knowledge that if things went bad, I had 3 bilge pumps on board. It appears, in case of the worst, I am depending on that one 23 yr old pump up front, is that right?

bpboater
#9 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:05:45 AM(UTC)
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There is a drain plug in the rear, just to the starboard side of the keel and immediately in front of the cross frame before the rear stateroom. When you open the steps look to the rear of that compartment. The plug was put in before the sound absorbing tar was added, so the outline might be fuzzy.

Yep, there is only the one pump up front. But, if the boat really starts to sink, there are open passages between the front and rear hull compartmments about 8 inches above the hull.

I would not intentionally add antifreeze to the hull - it will just make the sound absorbing tar gooey and sticky.
fastjeff
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 1:07:08 AM(UTC)
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I believe the front and rear bilge were designed to be separate, but one never knows. If you store inside why should there be a water issue? I'd replace ANY bilge pump that old!

Does your shower sump pump work properly? If not, alkaline water from the shower will gather in the bilge, corroding it from the inside. I know of at least one Marinette that was badly damaged in this fashion.

Jeff
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Docsnow
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:00:52 AM(UTC)
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Doug,

Hey I hated to alarm U to a dire synopsis but it would be worth a check, hopefully it’s just something simple as the suggestions offered in the above threads. On the use of anti freeze I’d use the pink stuff. Also there are little 45* angles along the inside of the ribs & braces that have been blocked with the application of the gunk the Mft. applied it took me about 2 yrs of rainy days with nothing to do to clear these & still think I’ve have a ways to go especially under the wine cellar. On anther note if it turn out to be the worst case scenario make certain that the welder drills a small hole at both ends of the fracture (say a 1/32" drill hole) or the crack will continue as he/she or U try to weld also clean the inside the weld area as best possible as it will flare up. Again hopefully it’s something simple as in most cases it is. Oh here’s another thought do U use your shower on board when the last time the filter has been cleaned in the pump as Jeff suggested? Or like on a 32" the holding tank under the Vee berth check the wood in an around it for being wet waste tank may be leaking (don’t even get me started on that one) here’s a pic of what to look for. Away wondered why shortly after the head was flushed the forward bilge pump kick on. But these are just a few suggestions that may be your problem. AnyWho may U find a easy solution. Prognosticator Norm, always look for the worst & hope it’s not Pray OOP's Pix would upload must be to $$hitty of a scene

Norm,

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Doug41
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 3:47:45 AM(UTC)
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Norm
One thing it is not, is my holding tank. Courtesy of a bunch of good guidance from the forum last fall, I replaced my old one with a new plastic one that is working great.

Jeff
We never use the on-board showers, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I am going to go out and buy a new bilge pump. I'll save the old one, which is working perfectly, for a back up.

I talked to John Althouse today, and he, too, thinks it's something other than through hull corrosion. He was very helpful and I appreciated him returning my call so promptly. It might be interesting to take a road trip to the UP sometime to see the plant. Has anyone ever been there?

Doug
fastjeff
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:08:40 AM(UTC)
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..."We never use the on-board showers,"

Eeeooowww! Remind me to stay downwind!

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

Docsnow
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:28:38 AM(UTC)
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Doug41 wrote:

One thing it is not, is my holding tank.
I replaced my old one with a new plastic one that is working great.




Sure glad U got that $$hitty job outta the way. Anxious That’s one U can scratch off the list of possibilities. Applause Don’t use the shower Huuummm Shame on you

Norm,

Big BigMs Live On Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

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 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
bpboater
#15 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 8:41:22 AM(UTC)
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Doug 41,

Will you post how you did the holding tank replacement? Did you remove the water tanks and the holding tank through the wine cellar door, or did you remove the floor in the salon to get the tanks out? How many people did it take to handle the tanks? What do you recommend for the replacement of the holding tank on a 41? Where to buy it and is it a standard model? Total cost?

Thanks,

Paul
Doug41
#16 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:54:58 AM(UTC)
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Check out the "General Category" and go back 10 or 11 pages to Oct 21 of last fall and look for the posting called "Leak in Holding Tank". There are 35 posts there that I exchanged with various folks who helped me through the process of replacing my holding tank.

I had to remove some of my floor boards in order to get to the holding tanks because they have to be slid a few inches in order to get the tank out. I had to remove my hot water heater and a strut in the floor in the cellar space. I was able to slip my new tank in through the cellar door.

I ordered the hold tank from Plastic-Mart.
http://plastic-mart.com/...lipWsnqMCFRMeDQodGxeykQ
I used a 52 gallon tank model number 48W. It was a bit bigger than my old one. Even though it worked for me, I would recommend you measure your openings to be certain it works for your boat. It just barely slipped in through my cellar door with some twisting and turning. The tank was around $300 but there were some extra costs for the threaded holes.

I did it alone. The toughest part to do alone was removing the old tank as it was much heavier than the new plastic one. There were some posters who did not recommend plastic, the best part of plastic from my perspective is that I can now open the cellar door, shine a flashlight on the top of the tank and I know exactly how much room is left in my tank before I need a pump out.

Good luck
Doug

Doug41
#17 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:56:53 AM(UTC)
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Correction: In the first sentence of the second paragraph, "holding tanks" should read "fresh water tanks".
fastjeff
#18 Posted : Tuesday, August 03, 2010 2:14:21 PM(UTC)
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Not a minor difference there!

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

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