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Deep cracks in paint all the way to aluminum
75 Express
#1 Posted : Saturday, October 23, 2010 2:31:30 PM(UTC)
75 Express

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I can use my fingernail and pry up little pieces that show the bare aluminum underneath. There are a lot of these around the boat. My question is do I have to sand the entire boat to bare metal or can I only sand the cracked areas and then put filler back on until it is level with surrounding area? Or can i sand just the top part of the cracked area and fill in the crack with filler?
Thanks for any help
Stan
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Capt T
#2 Posted : Saturday, October 23, 2010 11:12:25 PM(UTC)
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Stan,
If it were me, ( Well that was me last year). I would scrape back until you have removed all loose paint, feather out the rough edge's then fill and smooth. If you just fill the cracks they will keep spidering out on youd'oh! and your new paint job will be for not.Drool
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75 Express
#3 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 1:40:25 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Capt T, that is what I was thinking. I do have a question about the sequence of events based on what I have read on the forum. Method 1 would be to sand to bare metal, prime wash, sand, primer paint, sand, filler, sand, epoxy paint, sand, epoxy paint. or Method 2 would be to add filler after prime wash and before primer paint. I can't tell which one goes before the other. And is sanding necessary between each application of a product?????
Stan
Docsnow
#4 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 2:36:03 AM(UTC)
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Stan,

Fast Jeff, web site has a pretty write up on the prep & painting procedures. So does DiverDennis, might be worth a read. As U know prep is 95% of a great looking job that will last. That's no Liar

Norm,

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PS: what part of the boat is that in your Pix Think Looks to me like it may be the forward sun deck Anxious
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dougrose
#5 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 2:50:31 AM(UTC)
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I have had good luck with exposing bare metal, etching per directions, epoxy primer, then WEST epoxy / microballoon filler. The paint can go right over the filler. As for sanding between coats, always follow the directions on the can to the letter.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
yooper
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 3:59:41 AM(UTC)
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I have every kind of paint problem on my project 32'. It is like a paint problem laboratory. It had the original finish. It had pinholes, feathery cracks, and chipping filler. I concluded that they rushed the topcoat before the primer was dry causing the pinholes. In spots the paint was too thick and cracking occurred. Most of the filler was OK but in spots it was soft and lifting out. Some forum members have the tools and skill set needed to blast and sand down to bare aluminum and start over. Not me.

GENERAL APPROACH: I decided to aggressively sand (80-120-150) but only just past the loose paint and leaving the sound brown undercoat. When I broke the paint surface to bare aluminum I hit it with a compressed spray bottle filled with the etching primer which was the first part of my paint system. The top coat was a one part enamel.

DEEP HOLES: I used Interlux Watertite Epoxy Filler to fill in some big holes in the filler where water tended to accumulate. First I dug out all the soft stuff and sanded any bare aluminum. So the epoxy had to adhere to fresh sanded aluminum and old but sound filler and maybe a little etching primer. It did but with other problems. It kept shrinking back. When I humped it up it was to hard to sand level with the surrounding area. It also rejected my top coat even after I thought I had sanded all the Aniline Blush off. Epoxy is still the way to go for deep holes. Next time I will take some forum advice and mix up my own filler with micro-balloons. I just found a web site featuring aniline free epoxy. Maybe I will try that. Another forum tip was to apply a first layer of epoxy directly by rubbing it in with sandpaper. That makes a lot of sense.

CRACKS AND PINHOLES: After sanding, many areas still had hard topcoat but with many shallow pinholes and cracks down to the original primer. An auto shop recommended Evercoat 100421 polyester finishing and blending putty. It has a strong enchant so you put it right on fresh sanded aluminum or old finish. New finish must be fully cured. It is ready to sand in 20 minutes. Mix a little at a time on one of those paper sheet palettes or you will be throwing most of it away. It works very well, sanding easily and level.

PAINT: Use a system which can be tinted, sprayed, brushed, rolled or rolled and tipped.. A large part of the paint job is deck. To spray a deck you have to tape and mask all of the stuff on it or else remove it. Then you get to cover the rest of the boat. You can’t do any of this at the dock and after all that work you are going to walk on it anyway. Later you are going to have to patch and blend the paint until the next full paint job. Pick a flexible paint system. The best part of my paint job was the fly bridge and side cowls. I sent them off to a body shop to be painted and the trim stripes applied by professionals.
75 Express
#7 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 12:51:11 PM(UTC)
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Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to everyone's comment, but I was at the boat all day sanding and sanding and sanding.
Q1 Docsnow where is Fast Jeff and Dennis Dive's other website so I can see what they suggest? And yes that spot is on the top of the cabin right in front of the windshields.
Q2 Thanks Dougrose, I looked today at our local West Marine and did not see Epoxy/micorballoon filler. Maybe they have to order it for me.
Q3 Thanks Yooper. I also have the same type of paint failure areas that you mentioned. Apparantly when someone painted it before, they put on a gray filler that caused the original paint to crack and lift and the top coast did not stick to the gray filler either. It just curled up and off. I noticed this because they filled the topsides of the boat everywhere except under the flybridge, which I have removed. So now I have to sand all the way to metal just to get past the cracks. I also noticed some of those pinhole areas when I sanded past the gray filler and hit the original paint. The original color seems to be an off white yellowish color. When I try to stop sanding at the brown primer I still have cracks and pinholes that go to the aluminum. It is an ugly mess, but at least the view was good today while looking at out the lake and all the boaters going by.

Thanks everyone for putting up with a newbe asking the same old questions, but each of us only want to do this once so we're very cautious about doing it right the first time.
Stan
yooper
#8 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 1:33:38 PM(UTC)
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Your boat sounds rough with the multiple layers. My 32' has original paint so an electric orbital sander works. I have a 28' that needs paint before I sell it. It has those multiple layers hiding who knows what. I can step up to an electric 4 1/2" grinder or a 6" circular sander. There are also air tools. Now that both my boats are on trailers I can move them near a big compressor and maybe use my UNIRAM sand blaster. I sucks the sand back into a collector so you don't need a moonsuit to run it. You just need a big expensive compressor. I keep scouting the auctions for a portable gasoline model. As my Dad used to say "Use the biggest tool that fits".
Docsnow
#9 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 1:48:16 PM(UTC)
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Stan,

For Fast Jeff site scroll up the Sponsor (about 5/6 up) Jeff's site is in the sponsor thread, Can't seem to find Diver Dennis site either PM or email him through this site Whistle HTH

Norm,

Diver Dennis is in the thread just below. Thanks for the quick reply HillBilly Whistle

Big BigMs Live On Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

http://www.PictureTrail..../index.php?clubID=20726 this one for the Pix club


 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
DiverDennis
#10 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 8:56:57 PM(UTC)
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75 Express,

Welcome to the site. This is how we did it....

http://marinetteboat.com...oamings-and-gunnels.aspx
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dougrose
#11 Posted : Sunday, October 24, 2010 11:21:00 PM(UTC)
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75 Express,

The WEST epoxy is sold by West Marine but is not a West Marine product. The WEST stands for Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique. It is a five-to-one mix and has excellent properties. I use phenolic microballoons (look like brown powder) that I mix in myself, and I like them because they sand easily. WEST sells almost the same thing as 'low density filler'. You can put a glob of the stuff on, smooth it out with a Dragon Tongue (like a cheeze grater), and then blocksand level. You can wet a piece of sandpaper with the epoxy mix and sand it into the bare metal (gloves please, don't touch the stuff!) to prep the surface. It comes in little cans with pumps that make it easy to mix. There are other good epoxy systems on the market (System Three) but I have always used WEST.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/
http://www.fiberglasssup...og/Fillers/fillers.html




1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
75 Express
#12 Posted : Monday, October 25, 2010 10:02:22 PM(UTC)
75 Express

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Thanks DiverDennis, I thought I saw that post a couple of weeks ago, but could not find it again. This will help a lot.
Dougrose thanks for explaining the WEST product. I am looking forward to using it.
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