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1-Wire Alternator Conversion
Capt. Chad
#1 Posted : Friday, October 29, 2010 8:49:15 AM(UTC)
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So I got my new alternator from Marysville Marine and it is a 1 wire set up. I am replacing the factory alternator with a field wire coming off the back of the voltage regulator. Obviously I remove the field wire. So what about the regulator???? Leave it hooked up? Does it control something besides charging from the old alternator?
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
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Barkleydave
#2 Posted : Friday, October 29, 2010 9:58:23 AM(UTC)
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Your new one wire alt. will not use your existing regulator or wiring.

You will need to run a wire (appropriate size to handle the maximum amp rating of the alt) through a fuse (again large enough to handle the amperage of the alt.) then directly to the battery you are charging. The in line fuse should be within a couple of feet from the battery.

High amerage fuse's are availabe on line. I installed 60 amp alts five years ago on my BigM and they work great. They do require a min. of 1,000 rpms to activate the internal regulator.

You can run a seperate ground wire but usually the bracket bolted to the block works fine.

safe boating,

dave

None
Capt. Chad
#3 Posted : Saturday, October 30, 2010 2:23:21 AM(UTC)
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Dave, the 10ga output wire is running to the solenoid on the same side where the battery comes in. Would it be OK to leave it there and just put a fusible link close to the battery?

If you do run it back to the battery shouldn't I run it to the switch so I can select which battery gets the charge?

BTW, after pulling the port side battery switch off the bulkhead I can only say I am shocked. I hve never seen so much crap on the back of a Perko switch in my life. There are so many leads coming off each post that the nut probably only has 2/3 of it's threads on the stud.
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
fastjeff
#4 Posted : Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:11:31 AM(UTC)
fastjeff

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That's how the previous owner did it on mine.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

dougrose
#5 Posted : Saturday, October 30, 2010 5:39:04 AM(UTC)
dougrose

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My 2 cents:

Your wire should meet the ABYC current rating for engine rooms, or larger (smaller AWG number), so that you can pass a rigorous survey sometime. It should probably be orange, and go directly to a battery. There is probably a ground stud on the back of the alternator, and a wire of the same size but yellow (or black, not preferred) should run to the battery negative connection on the block, usually a stud on the starter motor. It is true that the bracket grounds the alternator to the block, but it is not as reliable as a wire.

You can use a battery combiner to connect batteries together when either one is getting charged, so that both are charged together. Look at http://store.hamiltonmar...00a-730942/4,39648.html

Many "one-terminal" alternators actually have a small terminal that can power the internal regulator only directly from the ignition. That will get you started at lower rpm and would be worth the trouble. Post the make/model of the alternator so that we can figure that out.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
Capt. Chad
#6 Posted : Saturday, October 30, 2010 7:24:21 AM(UTC)
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ARCO 40112.
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
dougrose
#7 Posted : Saturday, October 30, 2010 4:46:31 PM(UTC)
dougrose

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This is a 61 amp unit, and 10 AWG wire is on the edge, I would get 8 AWG. I don't believe that there is a ground stud, I don't see one in the photos. I would go ahead and install it using the brackets as ground and look at it again if the current isn't right. A piece of fusible link at 100 amps near the battery should handle the safety issue - but not if it is in the engine compartment. You should use a sealed fuse or circuit breaker in with the engines.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
Barkleydave
#8 Posted : Sunday, October 31, 2010 2:07:41 AM(UTC)
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Doug is right on as always!

Mine came from Masco and where nice folks to deal with.

I went with 8 AWG and there was no ground stud on the ones I received. I made sure I had very clean contacts with alt. bracket and block and used dielectric grease.

Mine have run flawlessly for 5 years now. I was not able to locate orange 8 awg so went with red. I used 80 amp Maxi Fuse inline fuse which is has a rubber cover. If you need to go to high amps then move up to an ANL fuse which is what I used when I installed by 1800 watt Xantrex Inverter a few years ago.

https://www.vtewarehouse.../html/maxi/maxifuse.php



dave
None
dougrose
#9 Posted : Sunday, October 31, 2010 10:48:33 AM(UTC)
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Don't get too concerned about the ground wire on the alternator if you are in fresh water. My experience is in salt in Florida, where any bare metal turns to red mush in a few weeks. I mention it because so often an alternator problem cannot be diagnosed because the hot side of the circuit was all that anyone looked at. I have seen alternators that would not charge, even after a good bench test, and found that there was a 2-volt drop between the alternator case and the engine block. Not such a problem in fresh water, but the ground wire makes poor contact between brackets irrelevant..


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
Capt. Chad
#10 Posted : Monday, November 01, 2010 8:20:27 AM(UTC)
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OK, got it all put back in and did NOT run the ground wire. Charging system worked great and was even providing good voltage at idle (advantage of the 1 wire system I guess). So I let it run in the slip for a while and came back. Voltage was now bouncing around between nothing and 14V. Is this a symptom of a bad ground? I was out of time and had allready taken everything back to the truck so I din't have a jumper wire with me to try and get a good ground to the alternator.
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
dougrose
#11 Posted : Monday, November 01, 2010 12:14:47 PM(UTC)
dougrose

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Bouncing voltage? Bouncing voltage where? The output of your alternator (the "one" wire) should go to the battery, and should see 12+ volts when not charging, and 13+ volts when charging. If it is bouncing from nothing to 14V, then I guess there is a bad connection somewhere, either from alternator to battery or perhaps the voltmeter leads themselves.

Use a cheap digital multimeter (or an expensive one) to measure between the alternator case and the engine block while charging. It should read 0. If you get any voltage there, add the ground wire. The battery will never just show 0 volts, if you are getting that, then you are not connected to it.

The ground circuit: 1) wire from alternator to starter, or wherever the battery negative is connected to the block, 8AWG yellow. 2) wire from starter mounting stud (preferred) to battery negative terminal, 2AWG to 0000AWG black or yellow, possibly to a stud on the hull and then from there to the battery negative.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
Capt. Chad
#12 Posted : Monday, November 01, 2010 12:40:44 PM(UTC)
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Doug, I ran the battery wire back to the factory location on the input side of the solenoid on the back of the motor. And it worked! For about 30 minutes that is... Then I see the voltage gauge bouncing around but knew it wasn't to be trusted. So I turned on the battery monitor that goes directly to the battery and the rythm matched the gauge on the dash. I always had voltage but it was between actual battery voltage and charging voltage (12.7-14.7) and came and went very erraticaly.
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
dougrose
#13 Posted : Monday, November 01, 2010 3:18:25 PM(UTC)
dougrose

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You should be getting a smooth charge unless the engine is turning really slowly. It sounds like the alternator is charging intermittently. Could be a bad connection to the battery, a bad ground, or just the natural result of a slow idle. Try revving up a bit and see if that cleans up the charge. Check the positive stud right on the alternator to see if the voltage is flaky there too. Measure between alternator frame and battery negative to see if there is a problem with the ground. Last resort, take the alternator in for a bench test. I must admit that this is a tough one....



1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
Capt. Chad
#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 02, 2010 8:52:28 AM(UTC)
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Went back to the boat today with meter and jumper wire in hand. Started the engine and could never get the system to do it again. It was charging normally. I just love it when problems magic themselves away. Typically that means it's waiting for the worst possible moment to show itself again.
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
fastjeff
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 02, 2010 3:08:07 PM(UTC)
fastjeff

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It's NOT gone away, it's just hiding; and it will come back.

I suspect you have a bad connection is the gage circuit. WHEN (not if) it does this dance again, quickly put a voltmeter on the battery terminals and see if it's doing it there as well.


Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

Capt. Chad
#16 Posted : Tuesday, November 02, 2010 11:44:27 PM(UTC)
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Jeff, I have a battery monitor that feeds directly off each battery and it was doing a dance identical to the voltage gauge on the dash so I have no clue what's going on unless it's a problem with the switch or a battery connection that comes and goes with vibration and heat.
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
Barkleydave
#17 Posted : Wednesday, November 03, 2010 1:34:40 AM(UTC)
Barkleydave

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Your mention of "dancing voltage" Are you comparing with your dash voltmeters? I have had several fail on various boats and have a defective one on my bridge that needs replacing.

My most reliable indicator on my boat is the digital monitor on my Xantrex inverter.

dave

None
Capt. Chad
#18 Posted : Wednesday, November 03, 2010 3:33:46 AM(UTC)
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Dave, that's correct. The meter coming straight off the battery was in perfect synch with the gauge on the dash.
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
Capt. Chad
#19 Posted : Wednesday, November 10, 2010 12:32:46 PM(UTC)
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Well, the port side that fixed itself is still fixed.

Now the stbd side is bouncing around .4volts with 1 battery on and 1volt with both batteries on. I am guessing it's the regulator. That's Ok though what's another one wire alternator to match the other side. Not to mention that now the circulating pump is chattering so why not go ahead and pull everything off the front of the motor? Did I mention I just slid the damn couch back over that engine and called it good?

However, I did take the family to Lakeside Tavern last Sat and actually came back in on BOTH engines. Things are definitely looking up!
1981 32' Sedan Fly Bridge
440 ci 330hp (2)
7.5 kw Kohler
"International Harbor Marina"
Friendsville TN, TN River
dougrose
#20 Posted : Thursday, November 11, 2010 2:17:30 AM(UTC)
dougrose

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When you are checking voltage at the battery, be sure to put your probes directly onto the top of the battery posts. You want to get the actual voltage that the battery sees, and it may be different from the voltage at the clamps. I just saw a case on an M where a battery was showing a nice charge voltage at the terminals, but the actual charge at the battery posts was nil. This, of course, is caused by bad contact between terminal (clamp) and battery post.

You should have a multimeter (digital voltmeter) with long leads with clips, so that you can clip onto the alternator frame and check voltage drop from there to the negative battery post, or to clip onto the POS alternator terminal to measure drop from there to the positive battery post. These measurements will tell you if you have a problem in the wiring. More than a tenth of a volt is probably too much.

It is hard to buy long meter leads. If you ask for them at Radio Shack you will get a blank stare. But they are very useful. You might want to make your own with wire and alligator clips that you can get at Radio Shack.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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