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ThanksDad
#1 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2010 1:03:31 AM(UTC)
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Hello M Experts,

A friend recently bought a really nice '71 express that has been updated extensively. In poking around, looking at where "everything goes", we noticed a very unusual supply line for the head. Under the deck, is a small pipe welded vertically through the floor supplying sea water to the head. About 8 inches away is a larger welded pipe that suggests overboard discharge. As the head has been replaced in this boat, the overboard discharge pipe apprears to be capped off under the base of the new head. The pipe supplying the new head is still in use. All under deck welding appears original and has the same silver coating as other components.

Questions: Was this a common installation in '71 (before EPA)? Does this welded pipe under the deck lead to any safety concerns? If it were to fracture, it would be nearly impossible to get to in an emergency. Is this one of those items that falls in the "it's worked for 40 years, so leave it alone" category?

Any info or thoughts would be appreciated,
Thanks, Scott
Scott Ross
"Thanks Dad"
1988 32-Fisherman
Son Rise Marina
Sandusky, Ohio
USCG 50-Ton Masters Rating
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Docsnow
#2 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2010 1:23:29 AM(UTC)
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Scott,

If it’s a worry to your buddy he could block off the exit than inject with a two part epoxy to fill the pipe & put his mind at ease Dancing

Norm,

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Barkleydave
#3 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2010 1:30:42 AM(UTC)
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I know in some of the Roamers in the sixties they sea water head intake was welded into the hull. The intake should have a shutoff on the pipe.

As to overboard discharge.

MSD Type I and II are legal only specific areas. State laws are very restrictive on the Great Lakes. Some states require that any overboard head discharge must be plugged not just shut off and locked. How strict the enforcement is is anyones guess.

MSD Type III which is holding tank is the most common and only one allowed on most inland waters and Great Lakes.
Example: TN and Cumberland Rivers allow MSD I, II, III. The only other areas I am aware of are off shore. NDZ (No Discharge Zones) are increasing along our coasts.

IMO: I would replace the current sea water intake with a conventional Maylar fitting with valve. If the discharge is capped and not in an area where it could be broken off, I would leave it alone.


safe boating,

dave

None
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dougrose
#4 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2010 3:08:45 AM(UTC)
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My 1975 32' has the same arrangement. I capped the waste outlet pipe with a 316 SS pipe cap but I continue to use the water inlet. It has a reinforced plastic piece screwed to the aluminum pipe, and a bronze ball valve. I have left it alone since it has given no trouble. I should have filled the waste pipe with epoxy before capping it, didn't think of it. I don't think it will have any use in the future.

A photo:





1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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dependo
#5 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2010 5:33:23 AM(UTC)
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I have it too. Have thought of using it as a source for washdown pump. Wayne
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jsimanella
#6 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2010 5:38:22 AM(UTC)
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If you want to replace it, with a more modern fitting, I'd guess that you could pound a wood filler in there and then use a hole saw, to open it up. The wood would give the center bit something to track on.
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dougrose
#7 Posted : Friday, November 12, 2010 8:40:35 AM(UTC)
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I thought of using a reducer instead of the cap shown in the photo, so that I could draw water from it. But I already have the water inlet for the head next to it, and I don't wash down with salt water, so no washdown pump. I use the hose at the dock and let the rain wash it down at anchor. I do have a bucket with a rope for emergencies....


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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shamrock
#8 Posted : Sunday, November 14, 2010 1:59:31 PM(UTC)
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I have something like it too, looks like a piece of pipe welded into the hull with a pipe cap on it.

Wayne, I am also looking to find a source for a wash down pump that I would like to install in order to clean the anchor and chain.
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fastjeff
#9 Posted : Sunday, November 14, 2010 10:47:01 PM(UTC)
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From what I read, using raw water to flush the head makes for more intense odors in the waste tank. Hence the need to use only fresh water for flushing.

Jeff
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Docsnow
#10 Posted : Sunday, November 14, 2010 11:19:20 PM(UTC)
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Jeff,

I guess it matters where one boats on the odor from the raw water flush. Here in the Great Lakes there is some mighty clean water Dancing

Norm,

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 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
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ComputerJoe
#11 Posted : Monday, November 15, 2010 12:27:32 AM(UTC)
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Although my discharge pipe was located differently, and it had a wedge shapped diverter welded on the outboard upstream of the pipe, I had to find a die to thread the things. With a marlon ball valve screwed on the small pipe I use for my raw flush water. I used a plumbers expandable pipe stopper on the big one to give me piece of mind and then I capped it. I had to grease the expandable stopper and the inside pipe as Marinette used tubing and not pipe sizes. As to cutting it out, I would trust the weld more so than any nut and gasket thruhull. If engineered correctly the top edge of these stand up pipes should be above the water line anyway.


I plan on opening it up and putting a security camera down it since a transducer will not let you know until it's too late that your going to hit bottom. Also it will allow me to see my returning scuba divers and allow them to signal me is something is not right.BigM
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ThanksDad
#13 Posted : Monday, November 15, 2010 12:54:07 AM(UTC)
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Thanks for the great info. These posts will make my buddy feel a bit better about this arrangement. We did find where the discharge line was capped off permanently. As always, this site is THE SOURCE of all that is M!

Thanks, Scott
Scott Ross
"Thanks Dad"
1988 32-Fisherman
Son Rise Marina
Sandusky, Ohio
USCG 50-Ton Masters Rating
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pfhlaw
#12 Posted : Monday, November 15, 2010 3:30:49 AM(UTC)
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ComputerJoe wrote:
I plan on opening it up and putting a security camera down it since a transducer will not let you know until it's too late that your going to hit bottom. BigM


Great idea Joe.
Peter
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Doug Doty
#14 Posted : Wednesday, January 05, 2011 1:51:45 PM(UTC)
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I have some experience with both raw and fresh water supplies to Marine heads. My 84 had pressurized fresh water to the original Sealand 8 gallon toilet / tank combo. Never any oders in the head area from the water supply. My neighbors in the marina almost all have river water supplies and they all will tell you that it creates an oder in the head itself as opposed to the holding tank and they would much rather flush with fresh water. Stains in the toilet as well. I replaced this head with a modern grinder last season to eliminate the odor from the direct drop to the Holding tank through that horid looking 4" ball valve. When I plumbed the presure water back up to the new toilet I quickly realized that the built in water pump to draw water into this new toliet to flush was not truly a positive displacment pump and it could leak pressure water to the toilet. I had to plumb a supply line for my toilet's suction/flush water pump bact to the water tank and hook it in between the tank outlet and the water system pump so it was ahead of the pressurization. My only thru hull forward of the forward engine room bulkhead is the drain plug.
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cap'n Brent
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:53:20 AM(UTC)
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My buddy just asked me about the type 1,2he said were he lives treated waist could be pumped o b what is a type 1 or2 I never heard of such a thing being u s c g
HP Chadwick bay Sunset Bay lake Erie NY boat name Sunrise 32' f/b fisherman chry 318 twin blue bastards,28'express singel 318
"It would be a labor of love, if I loved to labor" cpt Brent
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Barkleydave
#16 Posted : Thursday, January 06, 2011 12:49:54 PM(UTC)
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There are very few areas left where a type I, II MSD is allowed. None of the Great Lakes allow their use along with no inland lakes. Type I, II are treated discharge systems and they are expensive! Electrascan and Purascan are the most used approved devices. One uses Chorine and the other uses salt.

Coastal areas that are not designated as NDA which is all of the inner coastal.

The only inland areas that I am aware of are the Cumberland and TN rivers. I am not sure about the Ohio.

Dave
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cap'n Brent
#17 Posted : Thursday, January 06, 2011 2:08:58 PM(UTC)
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Yeah that's where he is. kentucky and tennessee atlantis between the lakes
HP Chadwick bay Sunset Bay lake Erie NY boat name Sunrise 32' f/b fisherman chry 318 twin blue bastards,28'express singel 318
"It would be a labor of love, if I loved to labor" cpt Brent
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