Heading to Nogales Az USA for delivery. The outfit I am leased to sent me a msg NOT TO SLEEP in delivery due to border patrol says dangerous for alot of drug traffic. WTF i'm safer in NYC or detroit,Compten, MIAMI. REALY I wish the H_ IC would protect our sovereignty. How do we as a collective try to say we are humane when our leaders do business with some one who mistreats there people so badly that the people come hear to make $5/hr tax free use our resources ie hospitals, police, schools and are don't contribute to the cost. I don't blame the people. If I could clear 200 k with no tax burden just not get picked up by the police. You would be a fool not to and if you did get p/u they feed you and give you a ride home and say" don’t do this again". Yet I not a criminal, a US vet ,hard working white man, not aloud to carry a wapon to defend myself due to local laws is told not to go to my delivery point cause of illegal trafficking in the neighbor hood. WOW we have this border thing under control. Sorry to air this here but this is effecting my life now and thaught y'all would be interested on what the real truckers wifes of america have to deal with not that bs on the tv shows kelly is a looker but i team with the hottest in the lower 48 thanks. For letting me vent

If you take away an $80,000 a year job from an American, you are a valued H1B technology worker. If you do a $5 an hour sh*t job that most Americans don't want, you are a bum. Don't think the politicians don't know about this - here in DC EVERYONE (but us) has "someone to clean" and "someone to keep the yard". Oddly, they all have names like "Pilar" and "Hay-sus" and they work hard for the few bucks people pay then out of pocket.

Speaking as an immigrant myself (not from Mexico) I wonder: If we don't want hard-working, law-abiding families like these Mexicans, then who do we want?

Cap'n, I was not upset in the least. I think we are in agreement - there should be some way for folks to work in our country legally who aren't making Bill Gates even richer, and there should be some way for folks who find a home here to become citizens eventually. My point was that the very politicians who are so upset at the 12M illegals here aren't hiring a cleaning service to do their house, they are hiring some Guatemalan lady, for peanuts. This is not about party politics, both parties are to blame.

If we didn't need this kind of work done here, there would be no market for it and no reason to cross the border. Capitalism is stronger than laws.

But your real concern is with the danger of drug trafficking near the border. I spent some time in Mexico in the 90's (business visa and all) and drug wars there were terrible. An army colonel told me that the army lost about 100 men a year in firefights with druggies. Today things are much worse. Please take every precaution that makes sense - those people are loco. Take care and keep safe.

Folks,

We have a social nightmare that has taken decades to create. There are responsible parties on all sides (and this isn't just a Democrat vs Republican snafu). People who rightfully don't want to see others shuffled off to lousy housing, poor working conditions, inadequate medical services have attempted to find ways to create solutions. Thing is, some of the solutions created problems down the road.

Hard looks need to be taken at the overall problems. I'm 60 and I want to retire in a few years with the benefits I believe I've worked for and am entitled to. But too many social programs have been snipping away at SS.

There are no easy answers. Illegal (non criminal) immigrants more often than not bust their butts working for substandard wages because the system doesn't adequately address the need for reform of the welfare system ("you want help? Fine, but you have to work to receive benefits".). So the illegal folks are the only ones who'll work those jobs. And yes, the folks who hire them should be taken to task for hiring them. Sure there are cases for receiving social benefits without mandantory "work for pay" which are extraordinary (Severely developmental disablitity folks would be an example). But people drawing public assistance need to buckle down and earn their benefits in some way. Jeff has some very valid points/suggestions. However, this addresses one "cut" in the system. There are many that need to be bandaged and allowed to heal.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox. (I needed to make this a bit longer - need the soapbox wood to start on my dingy...) Or was it that the admiral said I was dingy and not that she wanted one.... ?

Bill

Actually, things "are so simple", Doug, it's the lack of commitment to solving them that is hard.

A few comment on your comments:

"The Southwest border is huge - and sealing it will take huge manpower, not just 100,000."

Then use 500,000 Guardsmen! Or a million! We have them, and they are eager to serve! Just ask a few.

"And, there are those Canuks as well.... Who wants to pay for that?"

We're already "paying" in many ways--3 Billion dollars a year in California alone for illegal immigrants. And the Canadian border is not a problem (yet).

(SHOOT any invaders of this country who are armed and threatening, with no "reprisals" metered out to our soldiers and Border Guards who do so. This is WAR, dammit, and we're loosing it.)

"The thing here is "armed and threatening". Very few if any of the folks seeking work in El Norte have guns. If they had that kind of wealth they would stay home."

Then how can they afford to pay those evil Coyotes up to $5,000 to smuggle them in?

"The ones with the guns are drug importers, a different kettle of fish entirely."

You bet! Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the world--guess who's responsible? It's unsafe for AMERICANS to be within 20 miles in some places along our southern border. Armed gangs of Mexican drug thugs--aided by the Mexican Army--are terrorizing the border, killing policemen, land owners, border guards, and anyone else who gets in there way. This has got to STOP!

I know that good folks outnumber these scum by a wide margin, and I'd do the same thing to feed my family, but that doesn't make it safe down there.

'I think that you are asking for a Guest Worker program with standards and identification. We have that, it is called the H1B program, and it displaces a few hundred thousand tech jobs that would otherwise go to Americans. This program was set up by Clinton and Gore as a favor to the hi-tech industry, in hopes that they would become big demo donors."

And it worked, unfortunately! Strange how totally unskilled labor are almost welcomed in, but high tech professionals have to wait in line (and immigrate the right way). Humm...


(Fine the living hell out of ANY employer who has workers without a legal Workers Card.)

"This means an ID card for EVERY American worker."

Correct. Ever try to get a new job without some kind of ID, a birth certificate, and an SS number? "We" already have a photo ID (driver's license). Try getting on a plane without one!

"This is a big step. Many employers don't have the expertise to validate ID."

No biggee: They will use computers to access the National data base for the Guest Workers to obtain employment data and a photo. If Juan doesn't look like the guy on the screen, he's outta here!


"And some industries would just stop without undocumented workers. Welcome to the $50 salad bar and oranges from Brazil."

That "Doing jobs Americans won't do" nonsense has got to end. Hormel was raided by Immigration a year ago, relieving them of 200 illegals who were working there. The NEXT day legal Americans showed up to fill every one of those jobs. Personally, I wouldn't pick lettuce for min wage, but there's an army of teenagers and broke college kids out there that will. Keep in mind that we're not talking about lifetime job here, just temporary work. (You wouldn't believe the variety of jobs I did in HS and college!)


(Collect SS and other taxes from them.}

"If an illegal works in someone's house or yard and gets paid out of pocket, no tax is paid just like you don't pay tax on the $20 you give to a teenager to mow your lawn."

This practice will never end, but you have to differentiate between a person doing a ONE TIME job of cleaning your house to that of a FULL TIME maid (or etc.) Furthermore, that cleaning person will (and should) be working for some small business, and THAT business needs to be responsible for him/ her. The one time worker is a drop in the bucket compared to BUSINESSES that employ illegals. That's where the enforcement needs to occur.

"If an illegal works for a business, the business pays social security and withholding tax whether the employee is legal or not."

Not really! That's why some small businesses are fighting this--they pay nothing but under the table wages and avoid a mountain of paperwork that way.

"For an illegal that means that he is paying taxes but not collecting any benefits. Our government depends on this."

See the above. And don't for one second think illegals aren't "collecting any benefits"! They're savaging the "system" in SS benefits, hospital care, education, food stamps, etc, etc. etc.


"After they get a house, a nice car, and have a couple of kids at college, they tend to lean to the right, like anybody else."

Especially after they see how much the Feds, State and local governments take out of their paycheck! My youngest daughter became an instant conservative for life after taking a good look at her first real paycheck!

Jeff

Our problem began with the government and its greed to collect more taxes from the workers. They wanted to let the women homeworkers into the work force so they could collect income, social security and medicare taxes from them to finance their "spend it now while I am in office" scams. They came up with the Equal rights, women's liberation, life choice, etc. public relations deals. The women started making more money, paying more taxes and things were fine. They then hired undocumented workers to care for their housekeeping. The USA birth rate declined and a lack of workers brought on the migration of the undocumented since there was plenty of opportunity for them. State and local governments thrived on the newcomers. Then the great "Free Trade" stuff began. To avoid Social Security, Medicare, OSHA, Environmental Rules, our patriotic manufacturers moved their operations off shore since their products could be more competitive on our markets since they were tax free. Our steel, automotive, clothing and appliance manufacture plants shut down and we have a lot of unemployed Americans not paying taxes so the goofs in Washington figured out that the problem was the undocumented and they are the problem. The problem is the "goofs in Washington".

Enforce the Immigration laws and protect our boarders.

Dave; I’ve got your back with my voice and vote.
Jeff

What are the occupations, [ profession] of people who run the federal government.... State government.... and most local governments
They also advise almost every company in the country and involved in every judicial point that can be made. They are the most powerfull organization in this country. Turmoil is their paycheck. The problems of this country could be solved, but the solutions has to show a profit to the right people. Not a rant , just my thoughts. Not sure were this thread was going anyway.
Mark