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New Edelbrock carb hard start, stalls on accel

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tundrarules		#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 18, 2011 5:19:09 PM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 11/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 411 Points: 413 Thanks: 22 times Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Choke disabled and butterfly wide open. accel pump in carb verified working...sprays fuel in on advance.. New Edelbrocks...stbd running fine...port as follows Engine starts ok but I must jocky the throttle to keep the engine running. After short warm up the engine will idle fine. Under a load, stalls when throttle advanced...intermittent of course. FastJeff said something about drilling out idle holes??? That only make sense on the idle problem...what about the stall on accel? Leak around base cause this? Weak fuel pump? Fuel filter? Changed a few months ago, but I guess it could be full of junk causing this. Plan of action 1. Change fuel filter 2. Change fuel pump or at least swap 3. Swap out carbs to see if it follows Feel uneasy with a finicky engine when docking What do you guys think? Anything I missed? 1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge Twin 318s, 660 hours New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm) Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit Raw water system Freshwater always Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL RETRO BOATS ARE COOL If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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tundrarules		#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:36:00 PM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 11/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 411 Points: 413 Thanks: 22 times Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Changed fuel filters...no luck I guess I have a leak around the carb somewhere...didn't get a chance to check. Ran onto a good idea while researching a bit...I always thought you use starting fluid sprayed around the base of the carb to find leaks...can anyone say FLAMMABLE!! Not the best idea...may get fire in engine compartment. Use spray bottle of water the leak will show itself by pulling in the water...also will get a decrease in rpm. Sound like a good technique I will let you guys know how it works. 1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge Twin 318s, 660 hours New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm) Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit Raw water system Freshwater always Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL RETRO BOATS ARE COOL If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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MetalHead		#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:47:23 PM(UTC)
Rank: Dedicated Tin Star Groups: Member Joined: 1/28/2011(UTC) Posts: 62 Points: 195 Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 8 post(s)		Well duh - I just read the whole 1st message and I see a carb swap was on the list already Being a new carb it could be full of trash. Does it have line filters at the carb on the inlet? Looks like a piece of pumice that fits inside the line right at the carb where the fuel line screws in. I know on old cars they had these and people would fail to see if they were clogged up. Take it back and tell the guys you need one that aint a lemon !!! Mike Ray 1959 Family Cruiser Central Alabama
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fastjeff		#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 25, 2011 5:27:14 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration Medals: Groups: Admin2, Admin2, Admin, Administration, Member Joined: 12/5/2007(UTC) Posts: 3,133 Points: 5,732 Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 30 post(s)		1. Get the choke working and properly adjusted 2. Dial in the idle mixture better--I suspectit's way too lean. Jeff "...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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1 user thanked fastjeff for this useful post.		tundrarules on 5/25/2011(UTC)
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jimski2		#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:04:18 AM(UTC)
Rank: Top Rank Aluminum Star Groups: Member Joined: 11/3/2008(UTC) Posts: 147 Points: 71 Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)		I agree with the "choke adjustment and connect it up" thoughts since the engine runs fine after warm up. The purpose of the choke is to enrich the mixture of a cold operating engine.
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1 user thanked jimski2 for this useful post.		tundrarules on 5/27/2011(UTC)
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tundrarules		#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:03:47 AM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 11/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 411 Points: 413 Thanks: 22 times Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Quote: Well duh - I just read the whole 1st message and I see a carb swap was on the list already MetalHead play nice! I was just talking out loud...letting those that may not know everything my plan of action. Jeff, I had the choke working correctly(I think) and the engine would still need extra fuel (accel pump) to keep the engine running for about a minute or so (jockey throttles) after one minute the engine will stay running at high idle (2000 rpms) but dies if I reduce throttle. After 10 min warm up, I'm able to advance throttle in neutral only and it will not die. Once in gear, it stalls on advance...only some times...runs fine at idle. I adjusted idle screws on carb with vacuum gauge. Pulled max vacuum, then turned one full turn out. Since then I have turned richer (out, counter clockwise) two more turns...seems that have idle screws almost all the way out. Idle screws really don't effect the advance throttle problem do they? Idling great once warm. Choke question...Should the butterfly be closed all the way and then the choke opens it slowly (less than 5 minutes) then the butterfly is open all the way? I played around with choke setting and it didn't make a difference. Key in on the fact that after 30 minutes of running, the engine still dies on advance of throttle. Choke disconnected (butterfly wide open) Thanks all, Greg 1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge Twin 318s, 660 hours New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm) Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit Raw water system Freshwater always Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL RETRO BOATS ARE COOL If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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jralbert		#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:26:26 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration Groups: Admin, Administration Joined: 12/4/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,117 Points: 665 Was thanked: 12 time(s) in 12 post(s)		I hv no experience w/Edelbrocks but if they have small inline filters, they are a suspect. The symptoms you describe as very similar to what happens to me (with Quadrajets) when the little inline filter just at the mouth of the carbs get clogged. If they are the bad actors, the fix is $1.25 plus time. good luck Joel Albert, Potomac MD "Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props docked Deale, MD
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1 user thanked jralbert for this useful post.		tundrarules on 5/27/2011(UTC)
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jimski2		#8 Posted : Thursday, May 26, 2011 6:17:32 AM(UTC)
Rank: Top Rank Aluminum Star Groups: Member Joined: 11/3/2008(UTC) Posts: 147 Points: 71 Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)		More thinking gives me the posssibility of a float level not being proper, such as a stuck float, float valve, improper setting of the float, high speed jet not open enough??? Try Edelbrock for some information also.
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1 user thanked jimski2 for this useful post.		tundrarules on 5/27/2011(UTC)
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tr_guy79		#9 Posted : Thursday, May 26, 2011 9:53:16 AM(UTC)
Rank: Top Rank Aluminum Star Groups: Member Joined: 2/17/2009(UTC) Posts: 212 Points: 460 Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 8 post(s)		Make sure that you do not have fuel dribbling down the primary venturis (throats). If you do, that would be your problem. I had the same problem on mine. Everything I read said that the float level or fuel pressure was wrong. It wasn't; There was a clog somewhere in the carb. After pulling it apart and cleaning it, all is well.... "McKenna Renee" 1972 '32 FB Express. Twin 318 / Edelbrock 1409s Chesapeake City Md (Upper Bay / C&D Canal)
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1 user thanked tr_guy79 for this useful post.		tundrarules on 5/27/2011(UTC)
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MetalHead		#10 Posted : Friday, May 27, 2011 9:03:21 AM(UTC)
Rank: Dedicated Tin Star Groups: Member Joined: 1/28/2011(UTC) Posts: 62 Points: 195 Was thanked: 9 time(s) in 8 post(s)		That DUH was for me . I posted to swap the carbs then read the post in more detail and saw you said that was one option. I would look at the trash in the carb ideas. Very easy for chafe(SP) or pieces of line to get carved off as you attach the line to the carb and get flushed into the carb. Also if trash got in when it was being built at the plant... could happen. http://www.edelbrock.com.../carb_owners_manual.pdf Item 23 (PDF) page 26 - Doc page 20 I had a bad line once (Not a boat) that was comming apart on the inside. I kept tearing the carb apart to clean it and finally realized the issue was a faulty fuel line. Mike Ray 1959 Family Cruiser Central Alabama
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1 user thanked MetalHead for this useful post.		tundrarules on 5/27/2011(UTC)
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fastjeff		#11 Posted : Friday, May 27, 2011 11:41:13 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration Medals: Groups: Admin2, Admin2, Admin, Administration, Member Joined: 12/5/2007(UTC) Posts: 3,133 Points: 5,732 Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 30 post(s)		Oh boy! It sounds like your carb has the same problem mine did: Insufficient richness for proper idle. I screwed around with one of mine (a used, eBay "special") and finally tamed it by drilling the idle holes out. This cured its hard cold starting, back firing, and occasional stalling. If you want to try this, PM me for my phone number and I'll walk you through it. Not hard to do, but you gotta be CAREFUl not to break off a drill bit. Jeff PS: THe choke HAS to be solidly closed when cold, and fully open soon after starting. "...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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1 user thanked fastjeff for this useful post.		tundrarules on 5/27/2011(UTC)
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tundrarules		#12 Posted : Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:43:27 AM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 11/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 411 Points: 413 Thanks: 22 times Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Thanks for all the input guys. I put two new inline filters on. Like I said, no help. Not sure about the micron size of these filters. Autozone ff4506 filters. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Az-Filters-Fuel-Filter/_/N-8gd7g?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=ff4506&fromString=search&fromType=oem&itemIdentifier=926539_0_0_&oemPartNumber=ff4506 Autozone gives no micron size. Not sure about the difference for fuel injected vs carb filters...not even sure what type car these filters are made for...they just had the correct inlet and outlet size for the fuel lines so I used them. This is in the back of my mind, but the stbd engine is not giving me problems so I'm guessing I got a bad remand carb. Going to swap carbs and go from there. Good thing is National Carburetors that I got them from have a lifetime service warranty. (not sure exactly what that means, but I may be about to find out. Thanks again for all the ideas. Metalhead thanks for the user instructions on carb...very informative! Happy boating all. Hopefully I can follow up with a good fix soon. 1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge Twin 318s, 660 hours New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm) Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit Raw water system Freshwater always Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL RETRO BOATS ARE COOL If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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trontek		#13 Posted : Sunday, May 29, 2011 8:19:38 PM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 10/17/2008(UTC) Posts: 340 Points: 265 Thanks: 2 times Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)		Maybe a related story: Had a 1958 Mercedes. Symptom was - would max out rpm in neutral, engine would quit in gear when I tried to accelerate(could ease up to speed). Finally the fix was a new condenser. My theory: When I called for acceleration, I knocked a hole in the intake manifold(via the carb throat)This lowered vacuum. With lower vac(somebody spell vaccuum for me), I pulled in less fuel, which caused a leaner mix in the combustion chambers. Since it takes a higher voltage to fire a leaner mix - the condenser failed. Same symptom on a R60BMW motorcycle turned out to be a spark plug wire with bad insulation and the spark jumped from the engine case(where the wire ran thru on its way to the plug and spark took the path of least resistance, since we all know now that electrons flow from negative to positive(except you Navy guys[don't know if you have ever turned your diode symbols around the right way - or not....]. Did any of you read that they have finally discovered that an electron IS actually round?! Jim
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1 user thanked trontek for this useful post.		tundrarules on 5/30/2011(UTC)
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fastjeff		#16 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2011 7:22:37 AM(UTC)
Rank: Administration Medals: Groups: Admin2, Admin2, Admin, Administration, Member Joined: 12/5/2007(UTC) Posts: 3,133 Points: 5,732 Was thanked: 34 time(s) in 30 post(s)		No one's ever seen one, so.... If that carb has warranty I'd send her back pronto. Start off with another one and, if it has the same problem... Jeff "...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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1 user thanked fastjeff for this useful post.		tundrarules on 6/2/2011(UTC)
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tundrarules		#14 Posted : Monday, May 30, 2011 9:31:17 PM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 11/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 411 Points: 413 Thanks: 22 times Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Originally Posted by: trontek Maybe a related story: Had a 1958 Mercedes. Symptom was - would max out rpm in neutral, engine would quit in gear when I tried to accelerate(could ease up to speed). Finally the fix was a new condenser. My theory: When I called for acceleration, I knocked a hole in the intake manifold(via the carb throat)This lowered vacuum. With lower vac(somebody spell vaccuum for me), I pulled in less fuel, which caused a leaner mix in the combustion chambers. Since it takes a higher voltage to fire a leaner mix - the condenser failed. Same symptom on a R60BMW motorcycle turned out to be a spark plug wire with bad insulation and the spark jumped from the engine case(where the wire ran thru on its way to the plug and spark took the path of least resistance, since we all know now that electrons flow from negative to positive(except you Navy guys[don't know if you have ever turned your diode symbols around the right way - or not....]. Did any of you read that they have finally discovered that an electron IS actually round?! Trontek you lost me on this one I don't know much about older cars therefore I have no idea about a condenser. I assume it's like a coil. I can tell you that I had three plug wires in the wrong position on my distributor cap and that engine ran fine (still not up to 4000 rpms) so these engines can run on 5 cylinders miss firing and you would never know it unless you are trying to make max rpm. *advance on that engine was stuck at 20 deg BTDC because of broken springs...ran fine at idle and ran pretty good up to 3300 rpms...no backfiring, no pinging, nothing unusual..pretty amazing to me, but I am not an experienced mech. FastJeff...great idea, unfortunately I am passed the full warranty, but I am thinking the same as you. 1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge Twin 318s, 660 hours New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm) Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit Raw water system Freshwater always Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL RETRO BOATS ARE COOL If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.**
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trontek		#15 Posted : Tuesday, May 31, 2011 12:09:37 PM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 10/17/2008(UTC) Posts: 340 Points: 265 Thanks: 2 times Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)		[ [/quote] Trontek you lost me on this one I don't know much about older cars therefore I have no idea about a condenser. I assume it's like a coil. [/quote] The condenser is about a 1.5mfd(or so) capacitor that is connected across the points. If it shorts(or leaks badly) it will kill your ignition. Jim
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Jack Marchand		#17 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 4:45:04 PM(UTC)
Rank: Upper Crust Bronze Star Groups: Member Joined: 4/30/2010(UTC) Posts: 162 Points: 398 Thanks: 1 times Was thanked: 13 time(s) in 13 post(s)		I think, in your case, I'd swap the carbs and replace gaskets while in there. Just my 2 cents worth. JAM 75 FB express, "Big Enough II" twin 318s, 950hrs, raw water cooling, 1 to 1 transmisions, Beautiful Lake Charlevoix, MI
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1 user thanked Jack Marchand for this useful post.		tundrarules on 6/2/2011(UTC)
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keeling time		#18 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2011 10:21:51 PM(UTC)
Rank: Dedicated Tin Star Groups: Member Joined: 1/13/2011(UTC) Posts: 66 Points: 210 Thanks: 40 times Was thanked: 5 time(s) in 5 post(s)		Tundrarules - I installed and connected 2 new Edelbrock 1409's today and all my woes disappeared. The old carbs were the problem....... Keeling Time 1981 32' Marinette Sedan FB Fresh Water Twin 318's Pertronix distributors Edelbrock 1409's
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mark klusman		#20 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2011 6:51:24 AM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 10/19/2009(UTC) Posts: 320 Points: -74 Thanks: 12 times Was thanked: 6 time(s) in 6 post(s)		Same here, best move i ever made last year. Mark No matter where you go,there you are. Knot Normal 28FT. Express Twin 318's Ten Mile Tn.
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tundrarules		#19 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:04:21 PM(UTC)
Rank: Marinette Royal Aluminum Poster (300+) posts Groups: Member Joined: 11/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 411 Points: 413 Thanks: 22 times Was thanked: 8 time(s) in 7 post(s)		Originally Posted by: keeling time Tundrarules - I installed and connected 2 new Edelbrock 1409's today and all my woes disappeared. The old carbs were the problem....... Great job keeling time Sorry I never called you back. Got the voicemail late and forgot to call the next day I was on the lake chillin Glad you got it all worked out. My carbs ran great for awhile. I am now having trouble out of the port. Got to get down and troubleshoot this weekend. . 1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge Twin 318s, 660 hours New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm) Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit Raw water system Freshwater always Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL RETRO BOATS ARE COOL If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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