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New Edelbrock carb hard start, stalls on accel
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keeling time
#21 Posted : Saturday, June 11, 2011 6:41:40 PM(UTC)
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TR - could need a rebuild - check out JEGS for a rebuild kit - I've had good luck with them in the past on other items...
Also check your fuel for ethanol - seems to reak havoc on our old tired systems. I replaced the original fuel lines yesterday (yes original) - they were badly deteriorated from age and ethanol. I also went with the Sierra fuel/water separators - so far so good and I sleep good at night now. I also purchased from "Walmart" an 8 ounce bottle of "Star Tron" fuel treatment. One 8 ounce bottle of this treats about 140 or so gallons of fuel for ethanol and the such.......

Hope this helps.........

Keeling Time
Keeling Time
1981 32' Marinette Sedan FB
Fresh Water
Twin 318's
Pertronix distributors
Edelbrock 1409's
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BCassedy
#22 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:39:02 AM(UTC)
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Keeling Time,

Have you noticed an improvement after adding the Star Tron??!?!?

Bill
Bill & Sharon Cassedy
" Sunset Seeker "
1988 32' Fly Bridge
Twin 318 Cu In / 240HP Chrysler power plants
Raw water cooling
Freshwater boat
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keeling time
#23 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 12:52:32 PM(UTC)
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Bill - absolutely! I treated the fuel tank at the end of last season and added another bottle just the other day because I fueled up again. I pulled a sample and no water in the tank......I don't want to take a chance with the ethanols as the ethanol will collect water and cause poor performance.
Keeling Time
1981 32' Marinette Sedan FB
Fresh Water
Twin 318's
Pertronix distributors
Edelbrock 1409's
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tundrarules
#24 Posted : Sunday, June 12, 2011 4:55:04 PM(UTC)
tundrarules

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My marina fuel dock sells non ethanol fuel. According to this web site Valvtec web site link it's the best fuel in the world Think not sure if it's all hype. Sounds good though! I don't put additives in because they are already in the fuel. I'm pretty sure I have a lot of gunk floating around in the bottom of my tank. Hopefully soon I can pump it out.




.
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL

RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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tundrarules
#25 Posted : Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:39:55 PM(UTC)
tundrarules

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Originally Posted by: tundrarules Go to Quoted Post
Choke disabled and butterfly wide open.
accel pump in carb verified working...sprays fuel in on advance..

New Edelbrocks...stbd running fine...port as follows

Engine starts ok but I must jocky the throttle to keep the engine running.

After short warm up the engine will idle fine.

Under a load, stalls when throttle advanced...intermittent of course.

FastJeff said something about drilling out idle holes??? That only make sense on the idle problem...what about the stall on accel?

Leak around base cause this?
Weak fuel pump?
Fuel filter? Changed a few months ago, but I guess it could be full of junk causing this.

Plan of action
1. Change fuel filter
2. Change fuel pump or at least swap
3. Swap out carbs to see if it follows


Feel uneasy with a finicky engine when docking d'oh!

What do you guys think? Anything I missed?



Update:

Got ready to head out for 4th of July fireworks show late in the evening. Tried to fire up stbd eng and could not get her to stay running at all...including jockeying of throttle..after cussing and throwing the cushions in the salon and ripping out the salon couch frame Brick wall

I made a few adjustments. First adjustment was to the accelerator pump linkage, moved it one hole. Second thing I did was screwed in the idle screws 1.5 turns each to make them a little leaner as I was running very rich.

Hit the starter switch and she fired right up! Applause Never ran better! Jockeyed the throttle, no bog! Hit the stater switch the next day and it fired right up!

My theory is that I wasn't getting a big enough accel pump when I made a sudden advance in throttle so the linkage adjustment was the fix. Still have yet to do a sea trial because a storm blew in. I'm feeling like it will do good Speak to the hand


Idle problem I think was caused by trash in my idle screw passage. Not sure how trash can get past fuel filter? When I screwed the idle screws a few times the trash moved out I think.


Moral of this story,if you have an idle problem/start problem,
1) Make sure choke is working and adjusted correctly.
2) Remove both idle screws and blow out idle holes in carb with shop air. Put idle screws back in and adjust idle mixture as required.

If you have a bog on advance of throttle.
1) Change linkage position or rebuild adv pump seals (ethanol destroys seals).

Good boating all Applause



BigM
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL

RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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keeling time
#26 Posted : Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:46:31 PM(UTC)
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As you know, I recently installed new 1409's as well. I haven't had any stall problems such as what you have mentioned. I do want to adjust throttle linkage though as I am hoping to gain a higher rpm - only getting 3000 rpm at full throttle advance - both engines.

I am also going to replace copper fuel lines from fuel pump to carb with A1 fuel hose, barbed fittings and two each clamps at each end - hopefully next weekend. I am thinking the ID of this hose may be 1/4 inch although the rest of the fuel plumbing is 3/8 inch ID.

Too big ID hose may push too much fuel, too little ID hose may "starve" the carb....a simple measurement of the ID copper tubing would answer this, however......

If anyone knows the proper ID for A1 hose from fuel pump to carb would be greatly appreciated.

HAPPY JULY 4th! and happy boating!
Keeling Time
1981 32' Marinette Sedan FB
Fresh Water
Twin 318's
Pertronix distributors
Edelbrock 1409's
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tundrarules
#27 Posted : Tuesday, July 05, 2011 6:37:33 PM(UTC)
tundrarules

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Keeling,
I think you may be having the same problem as I am. My max rpm is 2500. My throttle cable is rigged for max throw on carb and I suspect yours is also. I suspect you and I both will be changing needles and seats on our carbs before this book ends. Also on my mind is the float angle Think The carbs on our engines sit an angle at wot...so I'm wondering if the float needles are even open all the way? I won't be able to get back to my boat for a few weeksNot talking


This is out of the owners manual for our carb.
Quote:
High Fuel Flow
When evidence of fuel starvation exists, first ensure that proper pressure (4-5 psi minimum) is maintained at WOT. If proper fuel pressure is supplied and fuel starvation still exists, it
may be necessary to change the needle and seat to a larger size (#1466). Do not make this change unless absolutely required, as the smaller inlet is preferred for proper fuel control
under most conditions.


We by all means have a high fuel flow rate and I think this is what is going on.

Here's link to manual for our carb http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/carbs_acc/pdf/carb_owners_manual.pdf

I want to test my fuel pressure and intake vacuum at various pwr settings and see what's going on.

How many rpms did you get before the carb change?

I will give up 800 rpms for a bad bottom and a load, but I should be getting at least 3500 rpms.



BigM
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL

RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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keeling time
#28 Posted : Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:35:49 PM(UTC)
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I was getting only 2200 - 2300 rpm's before the engine(s) began to caugh and puke. After the carb switch, engines run smooth but only getting 3000 rpm at full forward throttles advance. I will monkey with the throttle linkage and see what happens.

I'm content with 3000 rpm however I know these vessels get more rpm's based on posts in this forum.......I'm not trying to set any speed records, I just want to know that I can achieve greater rpm's.

I don't know what the original carbs and CFM's were on these Marinette's but the 1409's are 600 CFM's. Are the 1409's too small for a 318 engine? IF SO, then maybe the adjustments you mentioned are in order. I certainly don't know at this point.

IF ANYONE OUT THERE KNOWS OF A FIX - PLEASE POST. All work and no play is making me a very dull person.

As for the carb angle - if you still have the stock intake, it should be the correct angle (~8 degrees) to compensate for plane, forward momentum, etc. If you do NOT have a stock intake, mayhaps a carb "wedge" is needed to adjust for engine angle vs forward momentum and fuel dump. See the following site for these wedges:

http://www.hurrikain.com/Chrysler-Carbs.htm

Hope this helps some.........
Keeling Time
1981 32' Marinette Sedan FB
Fresh Water
Twin 318's
Pertronix distributors
Edelbrock 1409's
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tundrarules on 7/6/2011(UTC)
tundrarules
#29 Posted : Wednesday, July 06, 2011 6:03:50 PM(UTC)
tundrarules

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How's your bottom job Keeling?
Props? (not sure on mine, they do respond quick in idle)

You should be able to find a 1000 more rpms.

Seems that most people that make the swap are having good luck.

I think we may need to tune our carbs in richer. Further research required. Poking around I found out in the manual that the 1410 (750cfm) has the same needles and seats as the 1409. I thought we may have to go bigger on our needle and seat for the large fuel flow.

Good info here.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/misc/tech_center/install/1000/1409_manual.pdf




BigM
1985 Marinette 29 Sedan bridge
Twin 318s, 660 hours
New Edelbrock 1409 carbs (working like a charm)
Original Electronic Ignition, Blaster 2 coils, 90 deg plug wire universal kit cut to fit
Raw water system
Freshwater always
Located Pickwick Lake, TN,MS,AL

RETRO BOATS ARE COOL

If the guys on this forum take their time to help you, have the courtesy to update your thread with the resolution.
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fastjeff
#30 Posted : Saturday, July 09, 2011 6:02:41 AM(UTC)
fastjeff

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An Edelrock 1409 is PLENTY big enough for a 360 (and even 400 cubes). My boat (and yours as well, probably) maintains cruise speed with the butterflies open just enough to slip a pencil through; and it'll plane off with a touch more throttle than that. Plenty of carb.

The carb mounting angle is not severe enough to bother anything. They can run at twice the installed angle without a problem (unless the float level is way off). Remember, cars have to climb and descend steep hills!

The accelerator pump link needs to be in the CLOSEST hole to the pivot on Edelbrocks and the old Carters. A street carb application can benefit (in gas mileage) by having it out a hole or two, but marine engines don't experience a fraction of the many throttle changes that a car engine does.

The fuel line size from the pump to the carb is 5/16.

Jeff

PS: Sorry I wasn't around on the 4th to answer some of these questions.
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell
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2 users thanked fastjeff for this useful post.
tundrarules on 7/9/2011(UTC), harryb on 7/12/2011(UTC)
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