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Do I give up my outdrive?
ComputerJoe
#22 Posted : Monday, July 25, 2011 5:55:43 AM(UTC)
ComputerJoe

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This is why I love this site and it's inovation run amuck.
Thanks guys.

Now I have to catch my buddy with the 28-Sportsman and measure it up and see if I have the room for a standard prop shaft, gear box, engine setup and weigh my options. I hadn't thought about tilting the engine to match the prop shaft angle. Mounted a foot or two from the transom my spark arrestor sits about 4" above the deck but the bilge runs deeper the farther forward you go so my small block chevy should fit right up between the two 50 gal gas tanks on either side of the steps down from the weather deck.
ComputerJoe
#17 Posted : Monday, August 01, 2011 8:09:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: tr_guy79 Go to Quoted Post

If I were in your shoes... Stick with the I/O, keep up with maintenance, and enjoy many years of trouble free service. Though I am partial to VP drives (A 280pt is hard to beat for simplicity and durability), the Merc drives are pretty good too, though ignition cut out was a dumb idea, and the impeller IN the drive was also not a great idea. The VP units have no ignition interrupt and use a much more robust dog clutch. They also use an IB drive plate instead of a rubber coupler, and have an IB style impeller pump...

-Shane


What do you think of the Volvo Penta SXA drives. I had heard that parts were $$$ and hard to come by but I like there being no exhaust or water intake thru the stern drive. This will simplify and reduce my cost of conversion.
The SXA'a appear to cost about $5000 including transom mount and coupler. The 280pt seems to be made for a over hanging transom, our Marinettes have a pretty much vertical transom.

I'm off to Saginaw tomorrow to try and find some more dam Mercruiser gears! A set screw for the shifter cable came loose inside the stern drive and broke some pinion teeth. I'm a hurtin pretty bad right now and am just hoping for a summer free of any more problems so I can earn a living.
tr_guy79
#23 Posted : Wednesday, August 03, 2011 5:00:11 PM(UTC)
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Joe,

I do not have a lot of experience with the newer VP drives, and I am pretty sure they went to the merc style shift and a rubber coupler at some point. Their newer drives are composite, which is always nice if you are in saltwater, though (at least) initially they had some problems with them.

I am not sure what you mean by "overhanging transom", but I can tell you my old boat had a near vertical transom with a VP280 (same thing, just no power trim) on it...

You could always just go hog wild, and put a jet drive in it... I just picked up another ski, and was pondering mounting the whole power train in the M in the center as an auxillary / booster, just for the hell of it. Would really be pointless, but cool none the less. I am not sure that the hull on the M draws anymore water than the hull on my ski. On the upper Chesapeake, this would come in real handy...

-Shane
"McKenna Renee"
1972 '32 FB Express. Twin 318 / Edelbrock 1409s
Chesapeake City Md (Upper Bay / C&D Canal)
ComputerJoe
#24 Posted : Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:06:42 AM(UTC)
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I know NOTHING about marine transmissions.

I'm looking for a transmission to convert my Mercruiser I/O BigM to a reliable fixed prop over the winter. What should I be looking for? I have a 327cube GM block but Michigan Motorz is talking about their Velvet Drives fitting engines in Liters. They don't even mention if they are Ford, Chrysler, or GM blocks.

I would think that the tranny ratio could be worked around by picking the right prop.

dougrose
#25 Posted : Saturday, August 27, 2011 12:20:06 PM(UTC)
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Your can likely get a VelvetDrive to fit the GM block. They have a section that contains the reversing gear, and after that a section that contains the reduction gear. You can get a wide variety of reduction ratios. Early M's didn't use the reduction at all, but you will probably want 1:1.53 or 1:1.91. First, you must determine what size prop you can fit. Unless you are racing, you probably want the largest prop that will fit, and then choose the ratio to drive it properly. Remember, props are most efficient when the pitch is greater than the diameter, up to about 1.4X.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
bpboater
#27 Posted : Sunday, August 28, 2011 9:12:10 AM(UTC)
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If you want to stay with a Mercruiser outdrive, give SEI a call in Florida. They make knockoff mercruiser drives and sell them with a 3 year warranty for under 1500. Website is http://www.sterndrive.cc/
ComputerJoe
#28 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 8:06:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: bpboater Go to Quoted Post
If you want to stay with a Mercruiser outdrive, give SEI a call in Florida. They make knockoff mercruiser drives and sell them with a 3 year warranty for under 1500. Website is http://www.sterndrive.cc/


Been there, done that. SEI has nothing to fit my gimble. This old MercCruiser II has an entirely different transom mount from the Alpha's that followed it.

Given the problems I've had I am leaning towards something much more hard working and reliable like a tranny system. Velvet drive or a V-drive if I don't have the room to put a velvet in her. Otherwise VolvoPenta has some I/O models that do not want exhaust and cooling water run through them. I am only pushing 225hp out of a 327 GM block, thinkin I should have gone with a 350 small block. Dual outboards would be nice but the cost is beyond what I can do right now.

I really load down this 26' BigM when I have 6 divers and their gear aboard. I don't think loading has been my problem but it might have been. I believe that most of my problems have been trusting mechanics to "do it right." I am looking at converting because I have used up all my spare Mercruiser parts and they are real hard to come by anymore. I can not afford to break down at the beginning of the season again.
ComputerJoe
#26 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2011 9:06:19 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dougrose Go to Quoted Post
Your can likely get a VelvetDrive to fit the GM block. They have a section that contains the reversing gear, and after that a section that contains the reduction gear. You can get a wide variety of reduction ratios. Early M's didn't use the reduction at all, but you will probably want 1:1.53 or 1:1.91. First, you must determine what size prop you can fit. Unless you are racing, you probably want the largest prop that will fit, and then choose the ratio to drive it properly. Remember, props are most efficient when the pitch is greater than the diameter, up to about 1.4X.



One of the problems I ran into with this Mercruier was that the I/O that was on my BigM when I bought it had a 1:1 upper end gear ratio, the newer one from the SeaRay had a 1:1.48 or something like that. I couldn't switch and swap like I wanted to.

My 24' Searay I/O had a MUCH bigger prop for the same engine but the Marinette prop, which is smaller, seems to work better with both I/O ratios. My RPM's are up and the engine isn't working as hard on the low end with the smaller prop.

dougrose
#29 Posted : Tuesday, August 30, 2011 12:28:22 PM(UTC)
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If you know the sizes and pitches, and the rpm's and speeds that you got with them, it should be possible to make a good guess at the proper size for your boat. You operate more like a crewboat, and will thus want the larger prop to get the required thrust at reasonable engine speed. Check John's Marinette website to see what they used.

The velvetdrives are completely bulletproof, and are used in commercial applications all over. Marinette did it right the first time, and you might want to just copy the setup that they used with your hull. The tranny/shaft/strut/prop combination is impossible to beat for rugged and easy to work on.

I assume that your boat was always a Mercruiser and so the engine is far aft. That means that you would likely need a V-drive, with the engine reversed, the transmission forward, and the shaft running back under the engine. This is in fact in my opinion the perfect setup, you can get at everything. It is only a couple of gears more complicated than the straight shaft. You would have to add a packing gland to the hull, which means that the engine comes out anyway. You will need thruhulls for the engine coolant and an exhaust system.

I know that you have been waiting for this, but since you use this boat commercially, you might consider converting to diesel. I know a guy who has done it a couple of times, and has some info at http://web.me.com/dougmr...nversion_to_Diesel.html



1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
ComputerJoe
#30 Posted : Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:15:33 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Doug.
I spent some time on the phone today with a Ron Birtiz who really knows his boats...although he is selling Trojan's now he has lots of expirence with Borg Warner transmissions. He strongly advised against using a velvet V-drives. Apparently they expirence a lot more break downs than the straight velvet drives. I need reliable.

I got the lengths of the Transmission and reduction gear sections from him. Then I built a spreadsheet to calculate the run out to the shaft log given a starting height above the bilge. He recommended a 1.5:1 ratio with a larger prop but I might have to stay with a 1:1 and loose the extra length the reduction gears add if I don't have the room.

I am working on Capt'n Brent to cut out 1 square foot sections around his prop shaft log and rudder log before he scraps his 28' hull. Manufacturing 5000 series aluminum logs will take a lot of time and effort and it would be alot easier to just cut the same size hole in my hull and weld in what I get from Capt'n Brent.

Your idea of using CV joints may come in handy. Thanks for the advise. Everything is appreciated.
dougrose
#31 Posted : Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:43:03 PM(UTC)
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I would only mention that there are a lot of really good deals out there on Marinettes in fine condition. It might make sense to just start over with a new boat that has what you want.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
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