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lcr
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 28, 2012 2:57:59 PM(UTC)
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Hi All,
I am redoing my 32ft Marinette. It is gutted. I would like to start insulating.
It looks easy enough to install extruded polystyrene sheets. However, I am having
a mental problem loading my non-flammable, aluminium hull up with foam :(
I've done the campfire test... and foam burns. (I will be skinning the
interior with aluminium) Has anyone tried rock-wool. Is there any way / any ideas on
how to deal with the humidity/condensation. I will have AC, and heat...
I know about neoprene, but that looks impractical. Any recommendations?
Thanks.
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jralbert_2
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:43:59 AM(UTC)
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Wouldn't use rock wool in a moist place. It'll absorb water and will be useless and rotten and smelly. COnsider Reflectix. Cheap and reported to be effectivce, easy to install.It's essentially bubble wrap with a foil reflective surface.
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BCassedy_2
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:59:12 AM(UTC)
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One other alternative would be the foam insulation which I've had installed in my home. It's fire rated and closed cell (keeping moisture absorbtion out). While they have a franchise in Ohio, the very likely could hook you up with a company (or main office who could point you in the right direction).
http://www.usainsulationohio.net/

The insulation fills all voids and doesn't expand the way other spray-on foam insulation does.

Bill
Bill Cassedy
Sunset Seeker
32' SB
318 Cu In Chryslers
1.5 Velvet Drive trannies
Freshwater always
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lcr
#4 Posted : Sunday, January 29, 2012 9:31:57 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the feedback. I will have to look further into
those options. I know rock-wool has some
serious issues in this application. From what I read
it is the only insulation allowed on larger commercial
passenger boats. Seeing as we have aluminium hulls,
it should be easy to approximate those standards.
I would consider wrapping the rock-wool in plastic
sheet, and taping to prevent moisture and water from
getting at the rock-wool? It looks like this may be an
experiment...
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yooper
#5 Posted : Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:05:11 PM(UTC)
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I took the mildewed walls off my project 28' salon to cut replacements. The insullation was a mess. I bought some 2' 4' x 8' sheets blue foam sheets for insulation but they wouldn't work. The cavities were just too irregular so I gave up. I found some 4' fiberglass bats at the home center with the same white plastic backing as on the original insulation. I got to work on my 32' so I have not used it yet. Since then, I did talk to a professional insulation guy about having him spray in foam. He said a boat would be no problem. All his gear is truck mounted. He said different foams had different fire ratings. I also saw a demo on-line of a poor man's spray foam installation. You cut and fit the foam sheets into each cavity as best you can and then glue them in tight with the canned spray foam. Might work?
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lcr
#6 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2012 9:31:25 AM(UTC)
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My issues with polyurethane foam (Spray foam) come mostly from the following
document:

STANDARDS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION
AND INSPECTION
OF SMALL PASSENGER VESSELS

http://www.tc.gc.ca/publ...717/pdf/hr/tp11717e.pdf

19.1.3 Restriction of Combustible Materials
(a) All insulation including pipe and duct lagging shall be of approved
non-combustible materials.
(b) The use of polyurethane foam as insulation material is not
permitted.

They are quite explicit about spray foam for whatever reason. It has
also been claimed that it will promote corrision on Aluminum Hulls.
In houses extruded polystyrene sheets and similar products
must be covered by at least 1/2 inch of drywall. In a house you can
just run out the door, and let the fire keep you warm!


About "Reflective Bubble Foil Insulations & Radiant Barriers"
While they are better than bare aluminum, they seem to get poor
reviews in much of the literature. Still it may be the best soluton.

http://www.healthyheatin.../Page_55_o_bldg_sys.htm


From your posts it is clear that just stuffing rockwool in,
will not work :(




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1 user thanked lcr for this useful post.
Bill_2 on 2/2/2012(UTC)
lcr
#7 Posted : Monday, January 30, 2012 4:46:09 PM(UTC)
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I've been looking into this some more, and there is a "new"
technique for dealing with moisture in insulation.

Essentially the idea is to use a wicking material to suck the
moisture out of the humid/condensing area, to a dry area.
they say even Armorflex (third article) gets saturated with water
eventually.

Fiberglass mat is supposed to make a good wick. (like used
to make plastic boats) I'll check that out.

Any ideas on how to apply this to rockwool and boats?
Maybe with a fan, and a pipe/vent?


http://docserver.nrca.net/pdfs/technical/339.pdf

http://www.insulation.or...article.cfm?id=IO040802

http://www.pharmaceutica...cts-Cold-Pipes-From-0002
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Roger2_2
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:59:57 PM(UTC)
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Here is a foam insulation that may be OK. http://www.airkrete.com/

Roger
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mark klusman_2
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:25:08 PM(UTC)
mark klusman_2

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They make a few different fire resistant water based spray on's to go over insulation. I know that theres some temp. inversion with the AC running but if there is that much moisture showing up i would would be taking a look at my front deck and top hardware for leaks. For sure the window tracks and window seals.
Mark
NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO' THERE YOU ARE..

KNOT NORMAL
28ft. Express
Twin 318's
Blue Springs Marina
TEN MILE TN.
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lcr
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 31, 2012 8:01:03 PM(UTC)
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I don't have AC yet so I can't say how bad it will be. I will do my very best to make sure there are no holes for water to run in. My consern comes from previous discussions about fiberglass insulation being wet, mold and moist insulation causing corrosion. I would also like to use a not combustable product like rock-wool. I do not expect that it is impossible, just that some special attention needs to be paid. I think the wick solution that I mentioned could be a huge step towards solving the moisture issues, and give us a serious safety advantage.
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mark klusman_2
#11 Posted : Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:32:38 PM(UTC)
mark klusman_2

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As far as the insulation been wet in the past, really dought that it was the AC. I have an AC unit that fits in the front hatch when i want to use it. Had mine apart and only bad spot was were the window was leaking from the track. As far as the insulation wick or fiberglass would do the job. My boats 40 yrs old and have not had a problem with sweating.If it was me i would replace with what was close to original or whats newer. If it lasted 20 to 40 yrs, with new it will probably out live you or the boat.
Mark
NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO' THERE YOU ARE..

KNOT NORMAL
28ft. Express
Twin 318's
Blue Springs Marina
TEN MILE TN.
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lcr
#12 Posted : Wednesday, February 01, 2012 11:36:56 PM(UTC)
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It is good to hear that you have had success with AC and fiberglass insulation. I suspect you are right that it is other sources of water that cause the big problems.
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DiverDennis
#13 Posted : Tuesday, February 07, 2012 3:46:13 PM(UTC)
DiverDennis

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Originally Posted by: lcr Go to Quoted Post
Hi All,
I am redoing my 32ft Marinette...Is there any way / any ideas on
how to deal with the humidity/condensation. I will have AC, and heat...
I know about neoprene, but that looks impractical. Any recommendations? Thanks.


Check out this post to see what we used on our BigM

Constructed of 3/16"closed cell microcellular polyethylene with scrim-reinforced polished aluminum on both sides. It will stop twice the radiant heat transfer as those with foil on only one side, and those with foil on one side and vinyl on the other.

Stops 97% of radiant heat transfer which makes it ideal for lining engine covers in boats and motorhomes.

Extremely lightweight (only 0.8 ounce per sq ft), totally non-toxic, cuts with scissors or a sharp knife, easily forms to irregular shapes and can be secured with 3-M general trim spray adhesive.

This same insulation has been used in Nascar, Iroc, and World of Outlaws race cars.

DD
Surface Interval
1975 28' Express, Single M360
Specs: http://www.boatm8.com/my...amp;page=boats&arr=0
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