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Airpax Breaker Switches
yooper
#1 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:27:33 PM(UTC)
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I'm rehabbing my flybridge electrics. I have three broken Airpax Breaker Switches. I also need need new breakers for a searchlight, radio, sniffer and depth sounder. I downloaded the Airpax Snapak specification sheet. To get the right parts you have to configure an ordering number from a five part decision table. What a pain. Once you have the basic number you can vary the columns for amp rating and fast or slow trip as required. Anybody did this yet? I'd welcome a little help here.

http://www.airpax.net/si...pax_PPP_SNAPAK_0106.pdf

After the basic number is derived I still won't know what amp and trip characteristics to use for each device. The original specs were attached to each breaker with a little paper tag from which the ink has completely disappeared. Can you believe it? Delicate little breakers with specs written in disappearing ink!

We need a simple table of typical devices with amp ratings cross referenced to Airpax ordering numbers.
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Roger2
#2 Posted : Saturday, April 19, 2008 11:05:56 PM(UTC)
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John Althouse has the correct breakers, however the are not cheap. If you get # wrong on one breaker will probably cost more than you save by going direct.

Roger
Sea Jay
1983 37 double cabin, twin 230hp Volvo diesels, twin disk 1.5-1 20X 23 4 blade props
GB49
#3 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:55:26 AM(UTC)
GB49

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Here is a list I made last year for the switches I need to replace.
Marinette used only a few amp ratings.

10A DC
Bilge
Bilge

15A DC
Refer
Maserator

15A AC
starboard outlets
Batt charg
Stove
Refer

One of the 15A below is the AC rating, I think.

10A Breaker Airpax T11-2-10.0A-01-11A-V $9.25 Marinette Yachts, Poco Sales (www.pocosales.com)

15A Breaker Airpax T11-2-15.0A-01-11A-V $9.25 Marinette Yachts, Poco Sales (www.pocosales.com)

15A Breaker Carling MM1-B-34-615-1-2BB-B-C $12.50 Poco Sales (www.pocosales.com)

20A Breaker Airpax T11-2-20.0A-01-11A-V $9.25 Marinette Yachts, Poco Sales (www.pocosales.com)

Hope this helps a little.

-Karl
1986, 32' Sedan, twin 360ci, 275hp Chrysler's w/ K&N flame arrestors
dougrose
#4 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:15:09 AM(UTC)
dougrose

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If you want to replace the original thermal breakers with the same thing, you can get them at http://www.alliedelec.co...mp;sid=480A87802B56E17F for $21.

Personally, I don't like the thermal breakers, and in fact I have given away the ones I remove.

The Snapak breakers are pretty good, their slow curve approximates what you would get with a purely thermal breaker and is excellent for protecting the wire from overload without nuisance tripping.

Marinette used all 20A slow breakers to protect the wiring from shorts. Note that most electronics has its own fuze, which should provide proper protection. For a known load such as the reefer, you can always use a lower value breaker or faster breaker for protection, but this complicates things. If you have a water pump that draws 7A, you could use a 10A breaker. The no-delay breakers are usually used in special applications. The fast breakers are hard to find in stock.

The only thing that I don't like about the snapak toggles is the plastic handle. The metal toggles in the AP-MIL series I use look "period" for an older boat.

Don't worry about all those options, nobody stocks them all anyway. What you want is paddle handle, black, 20A, single pole series, slow, AC/DC (so you can use them anywhere) nickel knurled nut, vertical (toggle goes up and down instead of sideways).

You can get these (T11-2-20.0A-01-11AL-V) at Newark.com Stock No. 90C0671 for $15.60.

I looked at www.pocosales.com but they do not post prices. Sounds like they might be a better deal than the usual industrial sources like Newark. They have a really nice parts selector.

Note: 2-pole breakers are preferred for AC, but Marinette didn't wire it that way....



1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
Docsnow
#5 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:40:04 AM(UTC)
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Karl,

Thanks for posting the list of breaker switches made copy’s for boat & home use, ran into this
same problem with blower switch on F/B 2yr ago couldn’t read # on paper label Brick wall May be Joe
or U could post em on a parts list on this site so if anyone in the future needs this info it’d readily
available Applause

Norm,

BIGBigMs Live On Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

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 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
Docsnow
#6 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:41:17 AM(UTC)
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Doug,

One of the breaker U gave to Bill in turn he gave to me & that’s what’s replaced the jury rigged
switch I was using till I could find the right one Thanks Doug & Bill Applause

Norm,

BIG BigMs Live On Applause
http://www.picturetrail.com/gid23690601 Try it now there's music to listen to while U view the Big M's

http://www.PictureTrail..../index.php?clubID=20726 this one for the Pix club


 You'll have bad times, but they'll just wake you up to the good times you weren't paying attention to

Some people try to turn back their odometers.Not me, I want people to know "why" I look this way.I've traveled a long way and some of the roads weren't paved.
Bill
#7 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:21:21 AM(UTC)
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Docsnow wrote:

Doug,

One of the breaker U gave to Bill in turn he gave to me & that’s what’s replaced the jury rigged
switch I was using till I could find the right one Thanks Doug & Bill Applause

Norm,

BIG BigMs Live On Applause


Norm
Your Welcome BigM
Bill
ps look at item #150238204034 on E-BAY
"ALUMINATION"
1975 Marinette 37' Fly Bridge Sedan
Twin Chrysler 360 cu in - 250 hp
Grosse MI - FYC
dougrose
#8 Posted : Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:07:07 AM(UTC)
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When I make it back to the boat, one of my first projects will be to rewire the AC panel - one of the breakers has died anyway and I think I have all the parts needed. So I'll have seven more...


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
yooper
#9 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2008 5:56:40 AM(UTC)
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Thanks Guys for the Help on the Airpax Breakers.

karl, Your Airpax coding worked fine I ordered a handful to replace the broken ones and for future use. They were $12.50 apiece from Pocosales.com.

Doug, I used the Amperages from the diagram you posted of your Marinette 32. I found another problem. I cut the copper foil on the back of one gauge that connects the little gauge lamps. I rigged a power drill with a nut driver so I could work faster and ripped right through it. Some time saver, Eh? Radio Shack didn't have any adhesive copper foil. I can get some on-line. My question is can I try and solder the cut? I am worried about melting the back of the plastic case or making a big mess. How would you go about it?

Again Thanks guys.
GB49
#10 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2008 8:51:32 AM(UTC)
GB49

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You could probably solder it if your careful.

You will need,
steady hands
a cleaner/flux that is acceptable for electrical contacts
rosin core solder
a real soldering iron, not the Radio Shack crap that looses its heat when it makes contact. I ordered this one from www.Tessco.com.

The trick is high heat for short bursts or you will melt something. If the iron is not hot enough you will find yourself holding the tip on the part for a longtime and ultimately heating up the surrounding areas and melting things.

Be clean, hot and fast and you should be good.

If the solder wont adhere to the metal it probably needs more cleaning. If the solder wont turn to liquid, not enough heat.

I'm will to try ordering more switches from Pocosales but they never got back to me last year. Kind of irks me.

-Karl

1986, 32' Sedan, twin 360ci, 275hp Chrysler's w/ K&N flame arrestors
dougrose
#11 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14:22 AM(UTC)
dougrose

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I think that I would read Karl's post carefully -- he obviously knows what he is doing here. And, I would use a piece of fine wire to make the broken connection, solid phone wire or something would work. The trick is to tin the places you want to solder first, then just hold them together and reheat. Hot iron and fast hands would probably do it....


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
jralbert
#12 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2008 10:19:34 AM(UTC)
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"...I cut the copper foil on the back of one gauge that connects the little gauge lamps..."

Thnx for posting that .. so did I, a long time ago and thnx to Karl for the advice. When I get unlazy and brave, I will make my repair. I would take a piece of phone wire and hammer it flatter to give me more grab surface (but that's just me) for soldering.
Joel Albert, Potomac MD
"Charlie B" - 1988 32' FBS
Twin 318's/FWC/16x15 nibral props
docked Deale, MD
GB49
#13 Posted : Monday, April 21, 2008 11:49:44 AM(UTC)
GB49

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Forgot to mention earlier. Try to stay away from silver solder which is what is on the market today. The old lead solder is easier to work with if you can find it.

Also, some people may say the rosin core will be enough to clean the surface. On a clean board that is probably true but on the back of a crusty gauge I would get some liquid flux that is safe for electrical components.

Instead of flux I always use isopropyl alcohol with the highest percentage. I think Walmart has 2 types. One is more watered down than the other. Get the high test and scrub away with a toothbrush.

Be sure your iron is tinned and clean too.

And instead of using a wet sponge I would get one of these. They are great, last forever and work 100X better than a sponge.

-Karl
1986, 32' Sedan, twin 360ci, 275hp Chrysler's w/ K&N flame arrestors
pfhlaw
#14 Posted : Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:05:34 AM(UTC)
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You could "paint" the repair with conductive paint. They make it for repairs of electric defroster grids on autos. I used it years ago to fix our rear window defroster. I "accidently" scraped and cut the foil. They also sell it for model train layouts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/COND...idZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

http://www.frostfighter.com/prt2100.htm
Peter
1981 32' sedan bridge
twin Chrysler 360 cu. in. 250 hp engines
Raw water cooled
Nimbus II
Home port: New Buffalo, MI
yooper
#15 Posted : Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:38:42 AM(UTC)
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Just a little followup on the breaker issue. The Airpax breakers on my wire harness are attached with screws to little adaptors with fit over the breakers spade connections. These were not included so I called the supplier. They said I ordered wrong. To get the adapters I needed to use a "S" designation meaning screw fitting. He said he would try and get me some but they are not available separately. I found some fittings in the West Marine catalog which convert one spade connection to two spade connections. I can drill these out for screw fittings rather than send the Airpax breakers back. I also found some copper foil in the West catalog to replace the piece I ripped on the back of a gauge. Only $42 for 25'. PASS - I will try the conductive paint they sell to repair rear window heaters. If that fails I will apply my limited soldering skills.
GB49
#16 Posted : Saturday, May 10, 2008 2:41:51 PM(UTC)
GB49

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Yoop,

Did I give the wrong breaker part number in the earlier thread?

I'm about to order about 5 or 6 and want to make sure I have the correct part number. The numbers I got were from going through Poco sales website last year and I think those are the same ones I ordered 2 yrs ago.

Thanks,
Karl
1986, 32' Sedan, twin 360ci, 275hp Chrysler's w/ K&N flame arrestors
jsimanella
#17 Posted : Saturday, May 10, 2008 6:49:12 PM(UTC)
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Karl-

When I get my boat home (in the driveway), I'm planning on replacing all of the upper breakers and testing / salvaging the decent ones for spares for the lower. Should I replace with same type, or rewire with a different / better type (if it exists)?

Do you have anything to test these breakers? I'd like to put the applicable load on them and see if they are in tolerance. Probably would do the same to the new ones, just to check them, as well.

I also need a source for the starter switches - I think I'm going to replace them too. Still worried about last year's issues.

John

BTW - The spa control board looks like it's beyond repair. Probably going to take that $600 I saved on fuel and invest it in the hot tub (new spa pack and heater) :(
--
1987 32 Sedan Bridge
Twin 360s, Rebuilt 2006
Modified/Original Electronic Ignition
Raw Water Cooled
Catawba Island, Ohio
yooper
#19 Posted : Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:19:15 AM(UTC)
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Karl,

The code you provided brings in the basic Airpax breakers without little slip-on screw connectors. These are fine if you are replacing one because you can reuse the screw connectors. The problem is new breakers you may add to the harness. Airpax have weak plastic barrels which are prone to snap off. Attaching or detaching the female push on connections should be done when the breaker is off the panel. Using the screw adaptors requires less pressure on the switch barrel and is better for maintenance and allows attaching more than one wire. I talked to the Poco sales guy. He told me I needed to use the "S" designation. He said he would see about getting me the adaptors but I haven't heard from him and I have to move on.

West has slip on adaptors that replace one male connector with two (5 for $4). I will make drill these out and make screw connectors out of them.

If I were rebuilding the panel from scratch I would use the Airpax Rockers with the rocker protection feature. These are screw mounted so they don't have the weak threaded plastic barrel. And they are not prone to accidental setting.
GB49
#18 Posted : Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:47:38 AM(UTC)
GB49

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jsimanella wrote:
Karl-

When I get my boat home (in the driveway), I'm planning on replacing all of the upper breakers and testing / salvaging the decent ones for spares for the lower. Should I replace with same type, or rewire with a different / better type (if it exists)?

Do you have anything to test these breakers? I'd like to put the applicable load on them and see if they are in tolerance. Probably would do the same to the new ones, just to check them, as well.

I also need a source for the starter switches - I think I'm going to replace them too. Still worried about last year's issues.

John

BTW - The spa control board looks like it's beyond repair. Probably going to take that $600 I saved on fuel and invest it in the hot tub (new spa pack and heater) :(


John,

I have never tested the breakers but I would guess a variable resistive load in series with an amp meter would work. Just increase the load while watching the meter and see where the breaker trips.

On the starter switches I think John Althouse (www.marinette.com) is the best source. They are not cheap :(

Ya, I took a look at the last batch of pics. The back of the board does not look very good. The foil is bubbling. I suspect moisture and like you said the associated chemicals. If you get a new one see if the board is sealed or see if you can get a sealing spray. A sealed weather box would be nice but probably too much heat build up. Just don't want to end up forking over the $$ and having the new board doing that in a few yeas.
1986, 32' Sedan, twin 360ci, 275hp Chrysler's w/ K&N flame arrestors
GB49
#20 Posted : Sunday, May 11, 2008 1:49:23 AM(UTC)
GB49

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yooper wrote:
Karl,

The code you provided brings in the basic Airpax breakers without little slip-on screw connectors. These are fine if you are replacing one because you can reuse the screw connectors. The problem is new breakers you may add to the harness. Airpax have weak plastic barrels which are prone to snap off. Attaching or detaching the female push on connections should be done when the breaker is off the panel. Using the screw adaptors requires less pressure on the switch barrel and is better for maintenance and allows attaching more than one wire. I talked to the Poco sales guy. He told me I needed to use the "S" designation. He said he would see about getting me the adaptors but I haven't heard from him and I have to move on.

West has slip on adaptors that replace one male connector with two (5 for $4). I will make drill these out and make screw connectors out of them.

If I were rebuilding the panel from scratch I would use the Airpax Rockers with the rocker protection feature. These are screw mounted so they don't have the weak threaded plastic barrel. And they are not prone to accidental setting.


Ok! Thanks for the response. I think I'll order this week. Getting tired of using my little pocket screwdriver to engage whats left of the broken switches.

By the way, when you going to launch that 32??

-Karl
1986, 32' Sedan, twin 360ci, 275hp Chrysler's w/ K&N flame arrestors
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