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Learning to spray paint the hard way
yooper
#1 Posted : Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:14:56 AM(UTC)
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I was worried about my boat painting skills. I still am. I figured the cockpit interior would be a good place to refine my paint spraying skills. It has a lot of small vertical surfaces. After a lot of taping and sanding I put on the first coat of primer and made a big mess. I have to get out there this morning and sand away. I thinned the Schilling primer too much. My new Fugi Q4 HVLP likes thicker paint. I went with 4:1 and stuck with it instead of stopping and making an adjustment. I'll try 6 and then 8:1. I was trying to work blind. I started late, about 8:00 PM. It was kind of hot. I needed some anti-steam for the glasses. The primer is too close to the current paint color. I tend to rush stuff like painting. I was switching hands and radomly squirting the paint in all directions. Today I am going to count to three while I think about each pass until I develop some instincts for it. Unless I get better I will leave the top coat to the auto guys that are helping me. Anyway that cockpit area is probably the hardest place for large peaple to work.
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fastjeff
#2 Posted : Saturday, June 07, 2008 1:22:34 AM(UTC)
fastjeff

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You're also shooting way too much paint vs. air. Reduce the amount of paint to air ratio and fog on for the first coat, followed by a slightly heavier 2nd coat AFTER the first coat has tacked out. (That 'glues' on the next coat.) Three light coats beats one heavy one any time.

Jeff

One of my (too damn) many painting projects.
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yooper
#3 Posted : Sunday, June 08, 2008 4:02:19 AM(UTC)
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Today went better, no drips. Cutting down the air volume helped. I also thinned the primer paint only 8:1. Other users thin more but their equipment is different. The Fugi Q4 instructions say to make the airflow the last adjustment after thinning, fan size and paint volume. But cutting back on the airflow makes the other adjustments easier for the small surfaces in the cockpit. It is important to slow down and work with the gun until you get the pattern you need. Currently I'm putting more practice paint on the tape and paper than I put on the work. I also learned to take off the mask and leave for a while after each coat.
dacroof2
#4 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2008 9:30:25 AM(UTC)
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yooper, you need my grayco system. its pumps 2-1/2 gallons per minute of elastomeric rubber.
yooper
#5 Posted : Monday, June 09, 2008 2:14:30 PM(UTC)
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I finished spraying the cockpit area with primer. I couldn't get the top coat on. My practice panels were off. Too much orange peel. Also the gun started thowing out stuff like spider webs. I go with a thinner mixture and practice some more. The paint works well brushed on. It lays down very smooth. I may consider brush painting the main decks. It is something I could do at the Marina after I get in the water.
pfhlaw
#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:58:45 AM(UTC)
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Stick with it Yoop. Nobody except Leonardo da Vinci got it right the first time he tried to paint.
Peter
1981 32' sedan bridge
twin Chrysler 360 cu. in. 250 hp engines
Raw water cooled
Nimbus II
Home port: New Buffalo, MI
jhall767
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:29:13 AM(UTC)
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Yeah stick with it. For me its more like pray spaint then spray paint :)
bpboater
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:49:18 PM(UTC)
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Sometimes, the easiest way to solve the problem is to ask a pro to stop by and help you get the hang of it. It might be worth a $100 to have him help with the top coat.
yooper
#9 Posted : Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:16:08 PM(UTC)
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I stopped by and showed the pro my last practice panel. He gave me some tips on how to improve things. He also wanted me to consider using a 2 part polyester finishing finishing putty to fill all the pinholes and spiderwebs cracks on the outside decks. He took most of the original topcoat off the flybridge and Cowl and I had to pay for all that. So I consulted a guy at the autoparts store and got some Evercoat 100421 Easy Sand. $32 for 30 ounces. It says it contains ZNX-7 for adhesion to metal including aluminum. This stuff is applied with a plastic spreader in thin layers to build up for sanding. It is sandable in 20 minutes. It says not to apply it over fresh or uncured coatings. I'll stick with the water tite around stanchion bases and other areas with screw holes. I still got to call or go on-line to find when it is fully cured and if it is ok uncovered outdoors.
dougrose
#10 Posted : Friday, June 13, 2008 4:25:54 AM(UTC)
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You might consider using epoxy instead of polyester as a fill. I use WEST (not West Marine but you can get it there) epoxy and microballoons, and it has advantages: it sticks well to anything, it can be applied to cracks and holes with a rubber blade, it sands well, and it can be applied in any thickness because it does not shrink.


1975 32' Flybridge Sedan, twin Perkins 6-354 diesels, 1:1.53 velvetdrives, 16 X 19 props. Merritt Island, Florida
yooper
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 23, 2008 1:43:54 AM(UTC)
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After a day of practice on pieces of junk aluminum and foil taped to plywood I proceeded to paint the top deck and cabin sides with primer. I was all wrong with my thicker mixes for the Schilling paint. The Fugi Q4 turbine system is adjustable enough to throw out 8:1, 6:1, 3:1 whatever you want. The trick is to find a good mix that is easy to make a wet or a fog coat at various fan sizes and that won't run or show to much peel. You need to learn to vary fan, fluid or air adjustment on the fly. I settled on 20 DIN which I got by starting with 4:1 which was 26 DIN and then adding more thinner.

Things were going very well with the spraying until the end of the day. I ran out of 20 DIN paint before I finished the hood over the windshield. It was getting dark and I was bone tired from all the taping and finishing the tent cover I had to build over the boat. I should have gone home and picked it up the next day. Instead I grabbed a bottle of 14 DIN I was testing and put it in the gun. It seemed to work very well flattening out nicely. Then I ran around the cabin touching up thin spots. Well there was a dusting of granular paint all over my previous work on the roof area. I didn't crank back the air and didn't spot that I was putting out a huge amount of overspray with the thinner paint. Some of it is loose and will wipe off. Some is stuck and will have to be sanded. Too bad because the unsanded primer has just the right amount of bite to hold the top coat. Then I topped off the day by dropping one my small spray gun paint containers under the gas tank where it will never be recovered.

The more I work with the Fugi gun the better I like it. It can throw out a 10"-12" fan size or make a dime size round pattern. I am going to try the bigger fan size on the roof over the kitchen area.

P.S. Since then I just mix the primer and top coat 3:1 with thinner. This yields 17-18 DIN. Thinner paint is OK on horizontal surfaces but starts to sag or run on vertical surfaces.
SORRYDOG2
#12 Posted : Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:11:03 AM(UTC)
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You are reminding me of trying to spray Sorrydog!! What a mess I made of THAT!! Then the DEP showed up and stopped my spray GOBBING!! They did me a favor. Rolling and tipping went a lot faster and with practice looks good. Can you roll Scillings Paint? Alfred there is supposed to send me some samples of his bottom paint. Hadnt thought of using his topcoat paint. His ph has been ringing busy for the las tfew days. Since I am now in deps computer with a warning, I think I remain a ROLLER DOG!! Sorrydog
yooper
#13 Posted : Wednesday, July 23, 2008 2:02:38 PM(UTC)
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Schilling doesn't think the rubber enamel can be rolled because of the bubbles. I bought some Penetrol which is supposed to help paint flow out and keep a wet edge. I rolled some with 10% penetrol out on a test panel and tipped out the bubbles. Seemed OK but it still dries very fast so I need to do some more tests. I used a brush under the windshield hood and the lower part of the cabin side near the deck. Results were mixed. I got good single coat coverage but with some brush marks. Used 10% Penetrol. I may roll or brush the decks. Be nice to get away from all the covering and taping you need to do to spray.
DiverDennis
#14 Posted : Wednesday, July 23, 2008 3:39:59 PM(UTC)
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yooper wrote:
I may roll or brush the decks. Be nice to get away from all the covering and taping you need to do to spray.
Sure worked nice for us.

.....All surfaces got two coats of Primekote thinned 25% with 2333N thinner, sanded with 120, wiped with 202.

After masking the gunnel, rolled and tipped two coats of Brightside Y4248 - Fire Red (thinned 10% with 333 brushing liquid) and sanded with 220 between coats.

For the coaming it was two coats of Brightside Y4359 - White (thinned 10%) and sanded with 220 between coats.

From the step plates forward it was a coat of Brightside Y4359-White (thinned 10%) and Interlux Intergrip nonskid compound (4 oz per 20 oz paint) followed by another thinned coat with Intergrip nonskid compound (2 oz per 20 oz paint).....


Just a suggestion. Dennis.
Surface Interval
1975 28' Express, Single M360
Specs: http://www.boatm8.com/my...amp;page=boats&arr=0
yooper
#15 Posted : Monday, August 04, 2008 2:37:08 AM(UTC)
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Here is an update on my painting project. I talked to a auto paint expert to get some info on how to buff out my finish coat. He said that he already sold me 3M 3000 compound and 1500/2000 sandpaper to shine up my plexiglass windscreen. That should work fine for the Schilling enamel. I hope he is right. As we were talking I mentioned that everyone including him was recommending several thin coats. But my Fugi Q4 turbine seemed to work best with a couple of medium coats. The thin coats were too dry. He said that that I neglected to tell him I was using a turbine gun. Turbine and compressor guns work differently and some turbine just need to shoot thicker coats so do what works. I did buy a 1 mm nozzle to try out but I can probably finish with the 1.4 mm.

My turbine is fairly quiet and easy to carry around and set up. It would have been easier for me to have started with a high quality gravity feed compressor gun. Now that the learning curve is over the turbine should work OK for me.

I have to put the top coat on the deck and sides over the dinette/kitchen area then the cabin area will be done. After that I will mount the professionally painted cowls and flybridge and launch the boat. The deck and hull can wait.

Working outside was a big mistake. I should have tried harder to find and rent a big workshop. I had to build a shelter over the boat before I could even start. At least the boat is close.

I chose the Schilling paint because it is supposed to bond well with the original factory paint on my 32'. I have a 28' to paint after the 32' is done. It has multiple coats of who knows what on it. I will choose paint that I can get locally. I have to travel to Cleveland to get more of the Schilling enamel. I also want a system that includes a high build primer. Putting down finishing or smoothing putty works well but just takes too long.

DiverDennis and others have posted a lot of painting information which I will study further. Here are some requirements for my next system. A etchant or spot primer that won't lift whatever old paint I decide to leave on. It's Ok to sand to smooth out the final primer coat or prior to buffing the final top coat. But, no sanding between sprayed on primer or top coats. I want to be able to roll, brush or spray the top coats. Nothing too complex..I don't want a massive paint failure because I misunderstood some fine print. Auto guys can use a hardener additive which fully cures the paint in hours rather than weeks. I would like this feature. I noticed that there is evidence of soft uncured original paint under the rain gutter and other hull attachments.



fastjeff
#16 Posted : Monday, August 04, 2008 3:58:50 AM(UTC)
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After 40 years of rubbing out paint, I advise you do the followings:

1. Block sand with 400 grit wet or dry paper using LOTS of water and constantly cleaning/ changing the paper. I use a hose with an adjustable nozzle to dribble water on the surface.

2. Let dry thoroughly and look for areas that need more sanding. The surface should be flat and smooth.

3. Re-sand with 600 grit, being even more careful to keep the surface and paper clean.

4. Power buff with 3M Perfect-It buffing compound--it works bewtter and faster than anything else I've used.

5. Finally, after a few weeks, wax the surface.

Jeff

PS: I've had bad luck with any paper finer than 600; it makes scratches, cuts agonizingly slow, and has poor leveling action. The blue car (photographed above) was color sanded and rubbed out in this fashion.
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

yooper
#17 Posted : Monday, August 04, 2008 4:51:11 AM(UTC)
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Jeff,

Thanks for the tips. I got plenty of boat to try your system on. Makes sense to use a heavier paper since I have a couple of sags and thick spots to cut down. The compound I have is 3M Perfect-IT 3000. It says on the bottle it will take out 1500 and finer sanding scratches. If it is the same stuff you use it should also work on the coarser paper.

When I did my plexiglass windscreen I didn't know what I was doing. I did have some scratches from the 1500 that were hard to remove and seemed to be to deep for the 1500. Your technique calls for a lot of clean water while wet sanding. I just wet the surface. Then I probably gooped on too much compound. I noticed that the buffer will start to glide real easy as the compound dries. Good thing about 1/4 plexiglass is that you get all the do-overs you need. Not so with paint right?

The bottle says to use enough compound on the paint for a thin wet film for one or two passes before it start to dry. That means not much? Then it says to use light to medium pressure reducing pressure as the compound begins to dry. The instructions also say to "Spur pad as necessary to assist cleanup". I have no idea what that means. Also what kind of buffing pad do I use? I have thin cotton ones and big fluffy wooly ones?
fastjeff
#18 Posted : Monday, August 04, 2008 7:57:52 AM(UTC)
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A "spur" is an object that looks like one with ahandle stuck on one end. You use to clean hardened compound from the buffer pad. Any good auto body supply store has one.

The 3M stuff you have is the best one. It will buff out 400 grit scratches fairly well, but 600 come out easier.

Jeff
"...reality is not nearly as lovely as the world of Liberal Land. No wonder so many people want to go there." - Tom Sowell

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