No Fire

legendlc
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Re: No Fire

Postby legendlc » Mon May 04, 2020 6:36 pm

Correction, I had just glanced at the top of the tank and that is a safety regulator. No fuel pump. Since I have this cheap one from the internet and it's pumping the tank as we speak I may follow Jeff's instructions for a pump to fill the carb. That seems like a neat trick.
1978 37 Double Cabin
Lake Cumberland KY

legendlc
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Posts: 180
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Re: No Fire

Postby legendlc » Sun May 24, 2020 10:05 pm

Okay need some more ideas if you please. I am getting the motor to start and I have had it running for maybe 60 seconds at the most. It normally takes lots of cranking, several attempts of squirting gas into the carb etc. She doesn't want to start all the time or regularly, and I am having a terrible time getting her to stay running. Fresh gas in the tank(although can't get it to pick back up from the tank) have a small tank hooked to the fuel line and getting plenty of gas to the carb. I think I am eventually flooding it out. Any suggestions? I have the hei setup but haven't changed plug wires yet? Carb seems to be pumping plenty of gas but no idea on it's true condition. What would your next step be? New plug wires? Carb? Dist cap? Rotor? All of the above? Thanks in advance for any ideas!
1978 37 Double Cabin
Lake Cumberland KY

legendlc
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Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:50 pm

Re: No Fire

Postby legendlc » Sun May 24, 2020 11:03 pm

I should also mention I pumped 75 gallons out of each tank. I have put about 40 back into the side we are working on. Can't seem to get the fuel system primed back up but have been using a AUX tank hooked to the fuel line from the top of the tank and it's pumping great to the carb. So fresh fuel is definitely in play, I gapped the plugs to . 45 which may have been to much so backed them down to . 35 today. Pouring a little fuel in the carb and after a little cranking we get get her to run for a few seconds at a time. Not really getting any backfires just not lots of running. I am guessing we are flooding her trying to get her started.
1978 37 Double Cabin
Lake Cumberland KY

Fastjeff
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Re: No Fire

Postby Fastjeff » Mon May 25, 2020 5:41 am

Don't lock in (as I always do) on fuel problems. It sounds to me like you have a loss of ignition when you stop cranking her over.

First of all, I assume you have the stock Mopar ignition system. (If not, ignore everything I have to say!) There are two circuits used to power the coil, one that runs off the starter solenoid terminal ("I" as I recall) and the normal circuit coming off the ballast resistor (and ECU). Try this: put the 'key' on an check the positive terminal on the coil for voltage. You should see at least 8 volts. If not, jumper that terminal to a 12 volt source and see if she'll run. (If so, shut her down!)

Jeff
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington

legendlc
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Re: No Fire

Postby legendlc » Mon May 25, 2020 9:06 am

Jeff, I converted it over to the gm HEI style. PO had the ignition wired a bit strange compared to what I saw in diagrams on this sight and else where. I couldn't figure out what he had done so I switched over the the HEI. I have had it running for maybe 60 seconds at a time and that was the longest. A few times for 30 seconds or so. It just takes many attempts to get it to run and when it does it's just for a few seconds before it dies. The longest was a minute or so.
1978 37 Double Cabin
Lake Cumberland KY

Fastjeff
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Re: No Fire

Postby Fastjeff » Mon May 25, 2020 10:13 am

Boy, that's a tough one from afar. Here's what I'd do in your situation:

Pull a plug wire, stick a spare plug on it, and ground it to the block where it can easily be seen. Then have someone trustworthy keep an eye on it for spark when you get it to run again. If the spark stops THEN the engine stops, it's ignition related. (This person will have to be very sharp!) If the plug continues to spark AS the motor dies, it's not spark related. Got it? This way you can eliminate one of the two possible causes.

Good luck,

Jeff

PS: If you didn't insist your fuel is beyond suspicion, I'd swear you have water in your gas. I bought 4 gallons of gas from my local gas station and there was 3/4 of a Coke bottle full of water in it! You never know...
Attachments
Water in the Gas.JPG
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington

legendlc
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Re: No Fire

Postby legendlc » Mon May 25, 2020 12:01 pm

Nothing is off the table gas could be very suspicious. I pumped the tanks empty with a generic fuel pump and pulled it through the top of the tank using the in tank pick up. I'm sure it all didn't come out. I am sure there had to be water and crud left but I pumped until nothing else would come out. Put 40 gallons of gas and some fuel stabilizer in the tank. I am having a hard time getting the fuel to prime again. I can connect a AUX tank to the fuel lines at the motor and the fuel pump pulls it to the carb but when I connect back to the main tank once the line runs out it will not pick up from the tank. I've tried a few times by priming the fuel line and it will run until the line runs out then it stops. I do have a old Sierra fuel water seperator that the PO hadn't installed yet. I need to get that installed.
On another note. When it did run one side of the exhaust was 10-15 degrees hotter then the other. I have had the cooler one completely off and cleaned the water passages out. The other I separated the riser and the elbow and it wasn't bad but I rodded it out some. That side is 10 degrees hotter on the 45 second run it had. I may need to separated at the spacer and manifold and check for blockages there also. Only reason I didn't was elbow had lots of water in the passages so I assumed all was relatively clear. I just picked up a diy plug wires kit rated at 8mm and 500ohm resistance per foot. Hope to get these made up today and try to get it started again later this evening. We're 85 today and sitting in boat with walls on both sides so no breeze has wore me down the last two days.
I hope to get new wires on today and try again to get the tank re-primed somehow. I realized this morning my little aux tank has a valve that was set up for a lawn mower so I doubt it can flow enough to keep this motor running. I was trying that until I figured out the way to start pulling from the main tank again. Also the guage shows 1/4 of fuel. Maybe I just don't have enough?
1978 37 Double Cabin
Lake Cumberland KY

jralbert
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Re: No Fire

Postby jralbert » Mon May 25, 2020 12:23 pm

40 gals should b way more than enuf. While I bow before jeff in engine knowledge, sure sound fuel related/ You can get engine to start squirting stuff in to carb then nothing. Have you tried blowing air thru the fuel line to see if the passage is clear all the way to the carb?? And listen for bubbling in the fuel tank when you blow air in that direction.
-joel-
former owner 1988 '32 FB Sedan
Chesapeake Bay
twin 318 / 240 hp
Potomac MD

Fastjeff
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Re: No Fire

Postby Fastjeff » Mon May 25, 2020 3:40 pm

If can't gas to flow from the main tank, your anti-siphon valve(s)could be the problem. Take apart the fitting at the tank and take a look.

Jeff
"We live at the bottom of an ocean of air, not at the top." General Marvage Slatington

legendlc
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Re: No Fire

Postby legendlc » Mon May 25, 2020 4:04 pm

Will do, at the boat now. Everything was working fine until after I pumped the old gas out.
1978 37 Double Cabin
Lake Cumberland KY